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Forums - Gaming - id's Carmack: iPhone nearly as powerful as Xbox, PS2

HappySqurriel on 03 August 2008
ssj12 said:
HappySqurriel said:

John Carmack is among the top game developers/designers, but he is also among the best game programmers in the world. When it comes to predictions about technology there are few developers who have made nearly as many predictions and been as accurate as John Carmak. Now, being that the PSP and Nintendo DS are over 3 years old it shouldn't be surprising that the iPhone would be more powerful than them both combined; and with how close the PSP is to the performance of the Dreamcast or PS2 it should be surprising that the iPhone is similar in processing power to the PS2 (or possibly the XBox).

Now, a lot of people probably try to take this performance analysis to make assumptions about the types of games that should be made for the iPhone; or make assumptions about whether this device is suited to game development. Personally, I would say that although the iPhone has the processing power to support similar games to the PS2/XBox I think that would be a mistake. In my opinion, most people who will play games on their iPhone will be looking to use it in a similar fashion to how people currently use their phone games; they will be looking to play something quick and easy to pass a little time while they're on the train or waiting for something. In other words, you will probably sell far more copies of a game like Bejewled than a game like Quake.

 

there you go, you seemed to have mistyped your first sentence. I fixed it for you.

The last Good game John Carmack was involved in was Quake 3: Arena which was (noticeably) worse than Unreal Tournament ... Since then most of his work has been derivative crap, that without the technical impressiveness of his engines would have been ignored by gamers. Just look at Doom 3 and everything after that, can you really say that any of these games were one of the best games of the year it was released let-alone one of the best games in its genre?

In my opinion the combination of John Carmack and John Romero were why id software was so high quality in the mid 90s ... John Romero was very much a visionary in how games were going to be played, and John Carmack was the technical mastermind who was able to make Romero's vision come to life. Without John Carmack, John Romero lost the (trusted) expert to tell him what was (and was not) possible, and to acutally make the software that brought it to life; and without John Romero, all John Carmack can do is make incremental improvements to the formula set out by other developers.



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Viper1 on 03 August 2008

I'm flat our calling him wrong. You can lambaste me for not being a technology designer for the pas 15 years and calling a PC God wrong. The iPhone does not have the graphics processing power of the Xbox. Period.

The PowerVR MBX platform is not even PowerVR's top of the line mobile graphics platform. In fact, MBX is now a canceled platform. MBX has been used in many Nokia's yet you don't here anyone claiming those are as powerful as the Xbox, do you? It's the same graphics chip.

It's asinine to just accept what he says as gospel when the notion itself is absurd. Read up on the MBX platform.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

hunter_alien on 03 August 2008
scottie said:
Staude said:
LOL.. the psp alone is almost as powerful as the ps2.. wtf.. also.. in no way is the iphone near the psp.

 

How would you know? ever used an Iphone?

 

 

Yes I had... and no, not just once ;) And I can tell you this "power" smells to me like some pretty lame PR talk. Latly ID was a lot on Apples side by putting games like QW and Rage on Macs...



Vote the Mayor for Mayor!

NJ5 on 03 August 2008

@Viper1: I think you're taking his statement too literally. I don't think he meant the iPhone is technically equivalent to the Xbox. His mention of the PS2 only reinforces my belief. I think he was talking in quite broad terms, and taking the lower required graphical power into account (i.e. lower resolution).

@HappySqurriel: I approve of your assessment of the two Johns.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

stranne on 03 August 2008

Carmack has stated that his influence on game design has gone down since and including Doom 3, ("and it probably became a better game for it" or something like that was his quote).



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Viper1 on 03 August 2008
NJ5 said:

@Viper1: I think you're taking his statement too literally. I don't think he meant the iPhone is technically equivalent to the Xbox. His mention of the PS2 only reinforces my belief. I think he was talking in quite broad terms, and taking the lower required graphical power into account (i.e. lower resolution).

@HappySqurriel: I approve of your assessment of the two Johns.

 

More directly, it's in the processing area of the DC and PSP.  Saying it's in leagues with the PS2/Xbox is disingenious when not only is it not on the same level as either but a more accurate analogy is easily stated as I just pointed out.

 



The rEVOLution is not being televised

NJ5 on 03 August 2008
Viper1 said:
NJ5 said:

@Viper1: I think you're taking his statement too literally. I don't think he meant the iPhone is technically equivalent to the Xbox. His mention of the PS2 only reinforces my belief. I think he was talking in quite broad terms, and taking the lower required graphical power into account (i.e. lower resolution).

@HappySqurriel: I approve of your assessment of the two Johns.

 

More directly, it's in the processing area of the DC and PSP.  Saying it's in leagues with the PS2/Xbox is disingenious when not only is it not on the same level as either but a more accurate analogy is easily stated as I just pointed out.

 

I don't know what Carmack's exact words were, but the OP says:

"[Carmack] likened the polygon-pushing capabilities of iPhone to that of Sega's late, great Dreamcast. Taking the comparison to more current game hardware, he stated that iPhone is "more powerful than a Nintendo DS and Sony PSP combined," perhaps even nearing the capabilities of the PS2 and original Xbox"

Doesn't seem too far from what you're saying. The PSP is often said to be as powerful as PS2, although I don't know the specific caveats of that claim. Resolution and lower screen size have to be taken into account.

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

Viper1 on 03 August 2008

PSP isn't a portable PS2, I'll just point that out now. The iPhone being at or even just past the PSP in terms of processing power is plausible but nearing the Xbox is just loony talk.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

epsilon72 on 03 August 2008
Strategyking92 said:
BottledSpringWater said:
FJ-Warez said:
Incandescence said:
rocketpig said:
kingofwale said:
rocketpig said:
kingofwale said:
the guy is slowly becoming the biggest idiot in gaming. Right up there with Pachter.

ROFL. Sure. He's only been at the forefront of gaming technology for well over 15 years now...

 

and yet. we like him being there.... as oppose to be during interviews.

Again, QuakeCon. Everybody say it with me.

 

QuakeCon.

QuakeCon!!!!

 

 

 QuakeCon.

 

Quake-con.

Blizzcon.

Just kidding, I like id.  Their Linux support is top notch.

 



Plaupius on 03 August 2008
GlingGling said:
Plaupius said:
GlingGling said:

Why would anyone pay over $1800 just to access the hardware?
(source: http://gizmodo.com/5015540/iphone-3gs-true-price-compared)

And without a contract $599 for the 8GB version or $699 for the 16GB model.
(source: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9981676-1.html)

In this generation of iphone can't be a viable gaming platform. If people are shying away from spending $400 on a console that can bust a graphical groove, why would they spend $200/$300 more for Dreamcast on the go?

And don't gimme "it's a phone/multimedia machine too" because the demographics are different.

You just answered your own question. The comparable cell phones out there are in the same price range as iPhone, but won't make a similar gaming platform. Obviously people aren't going to buy the iPhone solely for gaming, or even mainly for gaming: it is a phone after all, along with a host of other things. But, way more people have phones than game consoles, and a lot of the gaming demographic is going to overlap with the iPhone demographic, so for them it may make sense to pay that much for a Dreamcast, iPod, Phone, GPS etc. on the go. I am one of them.

Then again, I don't know what you mean by a viable gaming platform. We'll have to see how it turns out, but I believe that after a year or two, iPhone will be the number 3 mobile gaming platform, right after DS and PSP. Other cell phones just can't compete with it.

 

By viable I mean not being able to offer anything more than marginal sales to studio developers. It's selling units at good clip, an estimated 10 million units through the first 12 months. I see the potential for the iphone to enter the mobile gaming market (it has a better chance than anything else). But again, with such diverse demographics, a high pricetag, and slow adoption I don't see it making an impact on the mainstream gaming market in quite some time. I wonder if we can draw any comparison to the abysmal PSP software sales (not counting recent success in japan).

 

I don't quite follow you here. What do you mean with slow adoption rate? The iPhone 3G is selling like hot cakes, Apple is forecasting 10 million sold by the end of the year, i.e. in about six months. Add to that the already sold 6+ million 1st generation iPhones and iPod touches, and you're somewhere nearing the 20 million mark. Not there yet, but it definitely will be there a few months into next year.

I do agree with you that iPhone is not primarily or even secondarily a gaming platform, yet SEGA believes Super Monkey Ball will sell a million, netting them in excess of 7 million in revenue. Sure, it's not huge, but I wouldn't call that marginal either. And I never claimed it would challenge DS or PSP, but it will be a very viable gaming platform, of that I'm sure.