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Forums - Microsoft - Darth Vader also on the X360 version!

naznatips said:
MontanaHatchet said:

I must suck at Brawl. After all, I played against my friend who had EXACTLY the same skill level that I did (by the way, I'm making this scenario up), and somehow, he managed to beat me (very much so). I was using Donkey Kong, and he was using Wolf. I could have sworn that the characters were equal, but somehow I still got my ass handed to me. It must have been because I suck at Brawl. What wonderful logic.

And I'm not talking about the characters, but the entirety of the series is based on a gimmick. Everything about it. You have items, characters, stickers, stages, etc...all based on previous Nintendo games or even games from third parties. Yep, they actually broke the golden rule of the game and added two characters which consistently appear on rival platforms. Snake was acceptable since he was asked for by his respective creator, but Sonic? Talk about satisfying the fanboys.

What's wrong with gimmick characters though? We had Link, who fit the theme of the game perfectly. We had Spawn, who came from an alternate comic universe (thus we can say that the time lines are different and it makes sense). And then we had Heieachi (spelling?), who traveled back in time (pretty stupid, I would have picked a different character). If you really wanted a technical fighter without stupid characters, you would buy a Virtua Fighter game.

Besides, the Star Wars characters make perfect sense. Did George Lucas ever specify when the Star Wars universe took place relative to our own? Just because Yoda and Darth Vader are "OMGZ TEH FUTURISTIC!!!" doesn't mean that they don't fit.

 

Not sure why you even wrote the first paragraph when you admit you made it up... so yeah... we'll just move onto the second.

I agree you could call Sonic and Snake gimmicks sorta.  Definitely added as fanservice, but neither is grossly unbalanced.  still, as you said, the whole game is a "gimmick."  It's an entire game based on fanservice, so adding more isn't a big deal. 

Soul Calibur started as a good technical fighter with great balance. I wanted it to stay that, but they broke that to focus on selling the game through side characters.  And no, Star Wars characters don't fit.  Not because of the time as much as the setting.  They stuck Star Wars characters in a world full of magic and martial arts.  And btw, a lightsaber should cut THROUGH swords. >_>

No, I made up the scenario because there is an obvious disparity between the two characters, and besides that, there is no way that a friend of mine and I would have the exact same skill level (it's impossible). But if you had two people with the same skill level, you could easily determine the difference in strength between different characters (Wolf is far better than Donkey Kong).

As for the timeline, I agree somewhat. Actually, the different light saber forms were often based off of Asian fighting styles from real life (such as Juyo, the seventh but incomplete form of light saber battle). If you read about Star Wars, you'd know that Juyo, and the Sith famous for using it (Darth Maul), were based off of old Asian styles of fighting.

But when it comes to light sabers, no comment. Technically, getting struck by a sword should kill a person (even an armored person) in one hit. But that never seems to be the case in Soul Calibur.

 



 

 

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Pristine20 said:

Soul calibur III didn't have gimmick characters. Did you hate that one as well?


I didn't really HATE any of them till IV.  III was okay.  It was really just a port of 2 though with new non-gimmick characters.  The reason I hate IV isn't that it has the gimmicks, but that the gimmicks got in the way of making a successful and competitive fighting game.



naznatips said:
Pristine20 said:

Soul calibur III didn't have gimmick characters. Did you hate that one as well?


I didn't really HATE any of them till IV.  III was okay.  It was really just a port of 2 though with new non-gimmick characters.  The reason I hate IV isn't that it has the gimmicks, but that the gimmicks got in the way of making a successful and competitive fighting game.

It's very likely going to be successful (saleswise, I don't know if that's what you meant). And there is nothing stoping it from being a competitive fighting game. Every competitive fighting game league has rules, the exclusion of characters can be in those rules. If you have a problem with the fighting system that's another story, one not easily fixed by rules (but not unfixable. example, some smash bros leagues don't allow edge hogging).

 



MontanaHatchet said:

No, I made up the scenario because there is an obvious disparity between the two characters, and besides that, there is no way that a friend of mine and I would have the exact same skill level (it's impossible). But if you had two people with the same skill level, you could easily determine the difference in strength between different characters (Wolf is far better than Donkey Kong).

You are a novice in Brawl if you truly believe that statement.



Words Of Wisdom said:
MontanaHatchet said:

No, I made up the scenario because there is an obvious disparity between the two characters, and besides that, there is no way that a friend of mine and I would have the exact same skill level (it's impossible). But if you had two people with the same skill level, you could easily determine the difference in strength between different characters (Wolf is far better than Donkey Kong).

You are a novice in Brawl if you truly believe that statement.

Well, I didn't even specify Brawl but that was the one Naznatips assumed I was referring to you, so I went with that specific iteration. Ignoring the obvious disparities in Brawl, why not look at the previous two games? Do you really have to be a novice to think that Fox is better than Pichu or Mewtwo (Melee)? Or how about in the original? Could only a novice believe that Kirby and Pikachu are better than Link and Samus?

I'm not even claiming that there are tiers, so there's no need to deny that one character is better than another.

 



 

 

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GlingGling said:
naznatips said:
Pristine20 said:

Soul calibur III didn't have gimmick characters. Did you hate that one as well?


I didn't really HATE any of them till IV.  III was okay.  It was really just a port of 2 though with new non-gimmick characters.  The reason I hate IV isn't that it has the gimmicks, but that the gimmicks got in the way of making a successful and competitive fighting game.

It's very likely going to be successful (saleswise, I don't know if that's what you meant). And there is nothing stoping it from being a competitive fighting game. Every competitive fighting game league has rules, the exclusion of characters can be in those rules. If you have a problem with the fighting system that's another story, one not easily fixed by rules (but not unfixable. example, some smash bros leagues don't allow edge hogging).

 


But the lack of balance doesn't just affect tourneys, it also almost voids the usefulness of one of the game's main modes: online play.  You can still play with friends if you limit the characters you use, but random matches will be almost all Yoda and the only way to be competitive will be Yoda.  The highest ranked player will always be Yoda.   etc...



naznatips said:
GlingGling said:
naznatips said:
Pristine20 said:

Soul calibur III didn't have gimmick characters. Did you hate that one as well?


I didn't really HATE any of them till IV. III was okay. It was really just a port of 2 though with new non-gimmick characters. The reason I hate IV isn't that it has the gimmicks, but that the gimmicks got in the way of making a successful and competitive fighting game.

It's very likely going to be successful (saleswise, I don't know if that's what you meant). And there is nothing stoping it from being a competitive fighting game. Every competitive fighting game league has rules, the exclusion of characters can be in those rules. If you have a problem with the fighting system that's another story, one not easily fixed by rules (but not unfixable. example, some smash bros leagues don't allow edge hogging).

 


But the lack of balance doesn't just affect tourneys, it also almost voids the usefulness of one of the game's main modes: online play. You can still play with friends if you limit the characters you use, but random matches will be almost all Yoda and the only way to be competitive will be Yoda. The highest ranked player will always be Yoda. etc...

 

Trust me. Nobody wants to play with Yoda. I think he is the weakest of all characters.



naznatips said:
GlingGling said:
naznatips said:
Pristine20 said:

Soul calibur III didn't have gimmick characters. Did you hate that one as well?


I didn't really HATE any of them till IV.  III was okay.  It was really just a port of 2 though with new non-gimmick characters.  The reason I hate IV isn't that it has the gimmicks, but that the gimmicks got in the way of making a successful and competitive fighting game.

It's very likely going to be successful (saleswise, I don't know if that's what you meant). And there is nothing stoping it from being a competitive fighting game. Every competitive fighting game league has rules, the exclusion of characters can be in those rules. If you have a problem with the fighting system that's another story, one not easily fixed by rules (but not unfixable. example, some smash bros leagues don't allow edge hogging).

 


But the lack of balance doesn't just affect tourneys, it also almost voids the usefulness of one of the game's main modes: online play.  You can still play with friends if you limit the characters you use, but random matches will be almost all Yoda and the only way to be competitive will be Yoda.  The highest ranked player will always be Yoda.   etc...

 

I guess that's the difference. I always play with friends. I don't get the same enjoyment out of beating on random people. Also, I wouldn't put too much stock into online rankings (a bunch of people you don't know). Friends and tournements are where it matters most.



GlingGling said:

I guess that's the difference. I always play with friends. I don't get the same enjoyment out of beating on random people. Also, I wouldn't put too much stock into online rankings (a bunch of people you don't know). Friends and tournements are where it matters most.


Fair enough.  I agree that playing with friends is best.  It still bothers me to see a fighter ignore balance for the sake of a side-character who never really belonged in the first place, but I probably was being a little too harsh on it.



naznatips said:
GlingGling said:

I guess that's the difference. I always play with friends. I don't get the same enjoyment out of beating on random people. Also, I wouldn't put too much stock into online rankings (a bunch of people you don't know). Friends and tournements are where it matters most.


Fair enough.  I agree that playing with friends is best.  It still bothers me to see a fighter ignore balance for the sake of a side-character who never really belonged in the first place, but I probably was being a little too harsh on it.

 

 In my opinion, the "side characters" are really not that good (don't know about Yoda though). I pwned all the people using Vader and The Apprientice pretty badly online without lag by using good ol' Mitsu so I don't think the game favors those characters except the players using them just really sucked. I gotta say that the guy who used the apprientice seemed to know what he was doing. I was probably just the more experienced SC player.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

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