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Forums - Gaming - Rage Developer:Rage will look worse on 360 due to compression

Mr.Y on 01 August 2008
blizzid said:
freebird4 said:
Hahaha, sounds like you guys have no idea who John Carmack is. He is very close to Microsoft and was even consulted by Microsoft on various issues with the original Xbox.

 

Just because he doesn't like the PS3 architecture doesn't make him a Microsoft stooge. For PC game development Carmack has consistently backed OpenGL over Microsoft's Direct3D. He's also been a big supporter of both Linux and Mac game development.

Carmack has been speaking openly about game development for more than a decade, and he's one of the most unbiased out there.

 

Word. John Carmack is a man of integrity. He has opensourced most of ids engines with id Tech 4 coming up. Definitely not a Microsoft stooge.



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DMeisterJ on 01 August 2008

Disc changing in a racer? What the f-ck?

Does that mean that if you race on one track, it's on disc one, and on another it might be on disc 2?



Squilliam on 01 August 2008
Retrasado said:
selnor said:
We have always had more than 1 disc for some games since Ps1. Disc changing is no big deal.

On the future front disc of any type, be it Blu ray or any other is extremely old tech now. Sd cards, Flash drives and the like are all limitless in space and are far more durable. Also there is way less load times as transfer rates are far better.

I would hope disc is not for the next generation as 30 gb Sd cards could easily be used in 3 years, or even small flash drives. This is hopefully where gaming will go.

I know Toshiba are looking at putting SD cards to the film industry for Hd films instead of Dics, as you could put it straight into the side of your HDTV(no need for a player) and watch the film that way. You would have smaller boxes to and unlimited space.

Flash cards may be used in the near future for gaming because of their low seek times, but I don't think they will be used for movies (which don't need low seek time) because they are far more expensive than discs and will be for a long time. For example. It currently costs less than $0.10 to make and press a DVD. There is no way that a 4 GB flash card will be that cheap within the next decade. None.

 

Perhaps then it would require a different perspective on how the games are delivered. If you could just buy memory cards for games and go up to a terminal in the mall to download a game I would definately do that. Especially if it was $10-20 cheaper than buying games on a disk from a shop.

 



Tease.

JaggedSac on 01 August 2008

I could see how this would be an issue. That new engine of his is supposed to be all about not sacrificing textures because of space and stuff.



Million on 01 August 2008
DMeisterJ said:
Disc changing in a racer? What the f-ck?

Does that mean that if you race on one track, it's on disc one, and on another it might be on disc 2?

 

NO Duh...

 

You gotta change disc for gear changes. * wink wink*




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dbot on 01 August 2008
Retrasado said:
selnor said:
We have always had more than 1 disc for some games since Ps1. Disc changing is no big deal.

On the future front disc of any type, be it Blu ray or any other is extremely old tech now. Sd cards, Flash drives and the like are all limitless in space and are far more durable. Also there is way less load times as transfer rates are far better.

I would hope disc is not for the next generation as 30 gb Sd cards could easily be used in 3 years, or even small flash drives. This is hopefully where gaming will go.

I know Toshiba are looking at putting SD cards to the film industry for Hd films instead of Dics, as you could put it straight into the side of your HDTV(no need for a player) and watch the film that way. You would have smaller boxes to and unlimited space.

Flash cards may be used in the near future for gaming because of their low seek times, but I don't think they will be used for movies (which don't need low seek time) because they are far more expensive than discs and will be for a long time. For example. It currently costs less than $0.10 to make and press a DVD. There is no way that a 4 GB flash card will be that cheap within the next decade. None.

 

I think flash cards would be cost prohibitive.  Blu-ray and DVD will always be much cheaper to make.

 



Thanks for the input, Jeff.

 

 

Kyros on 01 August 2008

Sd cards, Flash drives and the like are all limitless in space and are far more durable.


They may be limitless but there are slight differences in price. A BD disc has 50Gb and costs 1-2$ to make. The biggest sd card you can buy at amazon.com has 32Gb and costs 129.99$. 64Gb flash drives go for 350$.



FJ-Warez on 01 August 2008
Staude said:
makingmusic476 said:
Staude said:
FJ-Warez said:

Here we go again :)

MGS4 is not a full 50GB game there is no proof of it...

Second, the issue with the space is this, they are pushing really high res textures:

"The demonstration with which the new game engine was shown had 20 GB of texture data (using a more advanced MegaTexture approach using textures with up to 128000x128000 pixel resolution) and a completely dynamically changeable world."

No other game use this feature...

Third... why sony would allow to launch games on DVDs if they are promoting BR???

 

 

other than kojima saying it was. Especially since he stated that there wasn't enough room to put more than 1 language on the disc.

Kojima said MGS4 filled up a single-layered BD-Rom, thus requiring a dual-layered BD-Rom.  I don't recall him ever saying the game filled up a dual-layered BD-Rom.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if it did, given his fetish for uncompressed audio.

 

no he said that there wasnt enough room on a 50 gigabyte disc for more than 1 language, and that they had to cut some things because of space restrictions. Again on a 50 gigabyte disc.

 

There was multiple articles about it.. this is one of them

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/03/02/kojima-mgs4-too-big-for-50-gb-blu-ray-disc/2

Re read the article, then re read the sources, he never said anything about a 50 Gb BR disc...

 



By me:

Made with Blender + LuxRender
"Since you can´t understand ... there is no point to taking you seriously."
joshin69 on 01 August 2008

I would suggest that this is just maneuvering to get a little extra cash out of MS to pay for the overheads on a third disc



 

 assumption is the mother of all f**k ups 

kn on 01 August 2008
Hus said:
kn said:
I haven't heard of this one until this thread. Maybe Mr. Carmack has gone public in an attempt to force Microsoft's hand on the multi-disc royalty issue.... Or, maybe he even went to Microsoft and he threatened to go nuclear. MS maybe called his bluff. Who knows. Business can be ugly...

 

 

Or maybe just maybe the best explention is the simplest one.

Having more of something you need can be very usefull.

 

I didn't say otherwise did I?  Maybe you should try reading comprehension 101.  My point was that yes, it may take multiple discs to hold all the textures and such for the game but Microsoft won't budge and so Carmack felt that making a bold statement publicly would rile up potential fans, garner interest in the game, and force Microsoft's hand so they will not charge his company excessive royalties for multiple disks.  Personally, I was unaware that MS charges royalties based on disk count.  That's just stupid.   I understand they are trying to keep developers from creating multi-disk libraried games, but if developers want to do it, so be it.  I don't think stifling creativity by charging excess royalties is such a great idea.  I do believe that *most* developers would do their best to squeeze it on one disk anyway since it reduces cost and programming complexity (not having to create seamless swaps and such)...



I hate trolls.

Systems I currently own:  360, PS3, Wii, DS Lite (2)
Systems I've owned: PS2, PS1, Dreamcast, Saturn, 3DO, Genesis, Gamecube, N64, SNES, NES, GBA, GB, C64, Amiga, Atari 2600 and 5200, Sega Game Gear, Vectrex, Intellivision, Pong.  Yes, Pong.