By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Xenon vs Cell Which one really is better ??

Fishie said:
dbot said:
@Fishie - Tell me more. Where did you find the specs for the PS4. I can't wait to see them.

 

 LOL, nice one.

Simple fact remains CELL was too costly for Sony and last year they dropped out of the project.

Their single remaining chip plant was sold of to Toshiba and they stepped out of further R&D for CELL. You WONT see CELL in the next Playstation just like you didnt see their last megalomaniac venture(Emotion Engine and Graphics Synthesizer) in the PS3.

Good deduction.  Sony sold their headquarters in Berlin as well.  Does that mean they are closing SCEE? 

You have no idea what chips of the next playstation will run on.  It could be the cell, it could be an improved EE, it could be something else.  Your attempt to make it look like Sony is abandoning the Cell.  By the way, the "Megalomaniac venture (Emotion Engine/GS)" has sold 120 million and counting.

 



Thanks for the input, Jeff.

 

 

Around the Network

@ All

Basically:

Bottom line: SPUs are like most CPUs (Read NJ5)
Basics are pretty much the same. (Read NJ5)
Good data design decisions and smart code choices see benefits any platform
Good DMA pattern also means cache coherency. Better on every platform
Bad choices may work on some, but not others.
Xbox 360, PC, Wii, DS, PSP, whatever.

Rule 1: The SPU is not a co-processor!
Don't think of SPUs as hiding time “behind” a main PPU loop

Understanding the SPUs

What “clicked” with some Insomniacs about the SPUs:
“Everything is local”
“Think streams of data”
“Forget conventional OOP”
“Everything is a quadword”
“si intrinsics make things clearer”
“Local memory is really, really fast

Designing for the SPUs

The ultimate goal: Get everything on the SPUs.
Leave the PPU for shuffling stuff around.
Complex systems can go on the SPUs
Not just streaming systems
Used for any kind of task

Conclusion

It's not that complicated.
Good data and good design works well on the SPUs (and will work well anywhere)‏

Sometimes you can get away with bad design and bad data on other platforms
...for now. Bad design will not survive this generation.
Lots of opportunities for optimization.

But you do need to consider some things...

http://www.insomniacgames.com/tech/articles/0208/files/insomniac_spu_programming_gdc08.ppt



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

Marty8370 said:

@NNN2004 & Viper1 - read the following, it clear states 'SPE are Independent Cores'.

http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell1_v2.html

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=23854

http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2007/03/30/sony_playstation_3/3

 

 i see marty have a good proof so .. one point to marty .



anyone have a proof against marty ?



*Shaking my head slowly*

Marty, you don't understand even what you're reading, do you?

The SPE's are not independent cores. When you see the word "independent" in relation to the SPE's it is in reference to the totality of the SPE's in that each is independent of each other.....not independent of the PPE itself.

Everytime you read that they "act" like an independent processor doesn't mean it "is" an independent processor. They share similar characteristics and functionality but they are not wholly independent nor are they separate cores.

The SPE's are sub-level co-processing units. Do I need to get a an IC engineer in here to explain it to you?



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Around the Network

looks like people are starting to get banned for their input.

My 2 cents: we really can't tell which one is really better until the end of each respective console's lifespan.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

Marty8370 said:

@NNN2004 & Viper1 - read the following, it clear states 'SPE are Independent Cores'.

http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell1_v2.html

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=23854

http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2007/03/30/sony_playstation_3/3

 

"The PPE, which is capable of running a conventional operating system, has control over the SPEs and can start, stop, interrupt, and schedule processes running on the SPEs. To this end the PPE has additional instructions relating to control of the SPEs. Unlike SPEs, the PPE can read and write the main memory and the local memories of SPEs through the standard load/store instructions. Despite having Turing complete architectures, the SPEs are not fully autonomous and require the PPE to prime them before they can do any useful work."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_microprocessor



Do you guys have this argument everyday? It seems to be the same people too. We should just have a big hardware of the consoles thread where you guys could argue until the end of time about which is better.



i want to go to eat now and when i come back i hope i will see a conslution for this.



dbot said:
Fishie said:
dbot said:
@Fishie - Tell me more. Where did you find the specs for the PS4. I can't wait to see them.

 

 LOL, nice one.

Simple fact remains CELL was too costly for Sony and last year they dropped out of the project.

Their single remaining chip plant was sold of to Toshiba and they stepped out of further R&D for CELL. You WONT see CELL in the next Playstation just like you didnt see their last megalomaniac venture(Emotion Engine and Graphics Synthesizer) in the PS3.

Good deduction.  Sony sold their headquarters in Berlin as well.  Does that mean they are closing SCEE? 

You have no idea what chips of the next playstation will run on.  It could be the cell, it could be an improved EE, it could be something else.  Your attempt to make it look like Sony is abandoning the Cell.  By the way, the "Megalomaniac venture (Emotion Engine/GS)" has sold 120 million and counting.

 

For something that was designed to BREAK THE WINTEL MONOPOLY(Kutaragi`s words not mine) that is a pretty collosal failure.