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Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft's Greenberg: Wii Customers May 'Graduate' To Xbox 360

TWRoO on 04 July 2008
RolStoppable said:
TWRoO said:

1. NINTENDO consoles have always been about the same amount yes (I think they were all launched at $199 until the Wii)

2. You cannot factor in inflation into this because the graphs in your link do not, they sho a revenue increase, they don't tell us how much that revenue is worth comparatively.

3. Lets compare the prices of last gen consoles to this gen.
Xbox and PS2 both launched at $299.... GameCube at $199 (Dreamcast was this as well)
Nintendo's console is $50 more than last gen
Sony's was $200-300 more (now $100-200)
Microsoft's was $0 - 100 more (better selling version was $100 more) then $180 more (elite) and they haven't gone down much yet.

 

Adding to your post. Software wise:

1. Full priced 360 and PS3 games are $10 more expensive than games for Wii and PS2.

2. Special and Limited Editions for games which are more expensive than the regular game have become more common.

3. Games bundled with peripherals sold millions of units, like Guitar Hero and Rock Band.

So there you have a lot of reasons why revenue increased by so much over the past two years.

And
4. perephrials are considerably more expensive too.
360 controllers, sixaxis and Wii remotes are all a lot more than 6th gen controllers (and the Dual Shock 3 is even more again)

This was kind of beside my argument though... I did quote his post about revenue increase but I mainly wanted to debunk his argument that the Wii is sold mostly to new gamers with Nintendo's findings about 90% of Wii owners also had a 6th gen console, but JaggedSac obviously couldn't find an argument against it

 



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libellule on 04 July 2008

Microsoft's Greenberg said :

Microsoft's Greenberg: Wii Customers May 'Graduate' To Xbox 360

I say :

Wii Customers could have graduate To Xbox 360 but will graduate to PS3 ...

You are 1 year late Greenberg ...



Time to Work !

TWRoO on 04 July 2008
JaggedSac said:
^^They do show the amount of increase in revenue in the article. I believe it went from $12 Bil to $18 Bil. Inflation is nowhere near that much. Including inflation in these numbers show that the video game market prices remain relatively constant and yet the total amount of revenue grows, thus someone else in the world is getting into the video game market. As long as revenue increases at a larger rate than inflation, the market is increasing. AND when hardware increases its revenue the most and software drops(even with a $10 increase in price), there are more units being sold than usual. This market increase has to come from somewhere. You cannot sit there and tell me an increase of around 6 billion dollars does not mean an increase in market size.

 

That is what I said, they only show revenue increase. (if they considered inflation then yes there would still be an increase but it wouldn't be so huge)

Like I said, the main reason for such a huge increase is the higher prices... and software did not drop in revenue, only in percentage of revenue... this just shows that a slight increase in some games price didn't make as much of an effect as the massive increases in hardware prices.

Market size has increased because market is measured in revenue... revenue is not = to console sales. The number of consoles sold each year (in numbers not revenue) hasn't really made much of a significant bump (it was destined to be higher than the previous year because the consoles were just released)

I made my post to disprove your point about Wii selling to new gamers.... of course it is true to a point because it is every new generation, but it is nothing significant just yet (probably due to poor Wii availability)



JaggedSac on 04 July 2008

In 10 years(as far back as this article goes) there hasn't been as huge a jump in video game revenue as between 2006-2007 and you are going to attribute that to a slight increase in hardware costs and software costs(which are not really that much more from previous generations when you consider inflation).  And as always newer consoles are more expensive than the older ones and still there hasn't been a jump this big.  It is expected to be even bigger this year even with console price reductions.



TWRoO on 04 July 2008
JaggedSac said:

In 10 years(as far back as this article goes) there hasn't been as huge a jump in video game revenue as between 2006-2007 and you are going to attribute that to a slight increase in hardware costs and software costs(which are not really that much more from previous generations when you consider inflation). And as always newer consoles are more expensive than the older ones and still there hasn't been a jump this big. It is expected to be even bigger this year even with console price reductions.

 

You cannot include inflation... the graph doesn't not take it into account either.

The hardware increase in general is much larger than before.

generation 5th 6th 7th
Nintendo $199 $199 $249
Sony $299 $299 $499/599 ($399)
Microsoft - $299 $299/399/479
Sega (not
really relevant)		 $399 $199 -
other consoles sold too
 little to
 count at all.

I don't see how you can't see the huge increase there.

If I were to make a guesstimate of average console price (based on how huger the sales were versus price) the 5th gen would be about $270-280
6th gen a little higher, about $280-290
7th gen must be at least $330-340

And despite that there is the point about it being the start of the generation, which is when there is a boost in revenue anyway (see 2000 - 2001 increase from $6.6bln to $9.4bln which is a percentage increas of about the same as it says in the article)



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Pristine20 on 04 July 2008

I got to give the M$ PR guy credit for one point: "it may not be necessary for nintendo to do any serious upgrading to wii hardware" Why?

In general the majority wii owners are not all about graphics, games like SMG look good enough for them. The graphics are good enough to show everything that needs to be seen on screen unlike say back in the SNES days when only 2d was possible and characters were jaggy as hell.

Secondly, the hardware doesn't include any special capabilities that have the possiblity of expiring like a dvd player for example.

The only upgrades that may be needed for a wii 2 are a different type of wireless (maybe wireless-n) and improved motion technology? but these sorts of things aren't entirely necessary.



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

JaggedSac on 04 July 2008

So you are telling me with the largest increase in revenue in 10 years, that the video game market is not expanding faster than it ever has?

"As we have discussed before, Nintendo has operated based upon our basic strategy to "Expand the gaming populations" and have been able to significantly expand the total video game market in the last two years." - Nintendo.com

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/080425/06.html

From their mouths.



TWRoO on 04 July 2008
JaggedSac said:

So you are telling me with the largest increase in revenue in 10 years, that the video game market is not expanding faster than it ever has?

"As we have discussed before, Nintendo has operated based upon our basic strategy to "Expand the gaming populations" and have been able to significantly expand the total video game market in the last two years." - Nintendo.com

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/080425/06.html

From their mouths.

Of course it is expanding faster, in revenue.

In sales it is still expanding just like it always has done. And at the moment Nintendo is the main reason for that (last two generations it was Sony being the main reason)

It hasn't yet had much chance to expand properly into the blue ocean of "new gamers" in America yet (your article is America only... or it might be USA only) due to the lack of Wii availability (yes there are quite a few "new gamers" but it hasn't been any more than when the PS1 created some "new gamers"

 



shio on 04 July 2008
vaio said:
Strategyking92 said:
Cougarman said:
jake_the_fake1 said:
hit the win button on the wii long enough and you gain intelligence points, then once you level up, a simple minded casual wii owner gains the brain power to control the oh so complicated 360/ps3 controller. The final level allows them to move up to the keyboard and mouse for gaming. XD

 

wow it all makes sense now, i will try that thanks for the tip

 

 PC gaming is the ultimate form of entertainment though

 

 No it isn´t PC gaming will never be as good as console gaming and i am not talking about graphics.

The only genre that make PC better are strategy games and that can change with the wii mote.

RPG, FPS, Strategy, Adventure, Puzzle, Board/Parlor,  Simulations, are all easily better on PC than Consoles. And PC always gets the best versions of muliplatform games, and I didn't even mention the fact that PC can easily play them with a gamepad.

The only genres Consoles have advantage is Fghting games and Driving games.

And mark my words: Console gaming is dieing, one way or the other.

 

Strategyking92 said:
vaio said:

 No it isn´t PC gaming will never be as good as console gaming and i am not talking about graphics.

The only genre that make PC better are strategy games and that can change with the wii mote.

you didn't just say that....

It's true that PC gaming doesn't get as many games as consoles, but when some do come out, they are (mostly)easy to play and fun. Thanks to the K&M or M&K.

And as for the wii & strategy games..... Has an RTS even come out for the wii yet? lol.
The wiimote is cool, but will never be as comfortable to use as the mouse and keyboard.

 

PC gets more games than Wii, PS3 and 360 combined. Just a correction.



http://i48.tinypic.com/120qaon.jpg
Slimebeast on 04 July 2008
TWRoO said:
JaggedSac said:

So you are telling me with the largest increase in revenue in 10 years, that the video game market is not expanding faster than it ever has?

"As we have discussed before, Nintendo has operated based upon our basic strategy to "Expand the gaming populations" and have been able to significantly expand the total video game market in the last two years." - Nintendo.com

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/080425/06.html

From their mouths.

Of course it is expanding faster, in revenue.

In sales it is still expanding just like it always has done. And at the moment Nintendo is the main reason for that (last two generations it was Sony being the main reason)

What? "like it always has done"?

Last gen console unit sales (averaged on 6 years):
PS2: 16.5 mill per year
GC: rufly 3.5 mill per year
Xbox: rufly 4 mill per year
--------------------
= 24 mill consoles per year

2007: 33 mill PS360+Wii consoles

2008: 48 mill PS360+Wii consoles

This year will see double console UNIT sales compared to the average in last gen. That is not expanding like it always has done. That is HUGE expanding of video game market.