Squilliam said: @obieslut they probably will try to hit 100% possible usage on the 4 inline SPEs next up. Thats 4/6 or 66% of the available SPEs. Thats as low as the low hanging fruit hangs and it seems like the next obvious goal for an incremental but noticeable improvement in the technology.

 

i think you are right, you dont want to max out the hardware so early into its life or you will get the Gears effect

Rock_on_2008 said: davygee said: Sorry, but Ninja Gaiden 2 on the 360 runs natively at a resolution of 1120x585 (check the link), whereas Uncharted runs at 1280x720, which means that Uncharted has 40% more pixels on screen at the one time than Ninja Gaiden 2. Proves that Uncharted is far superior than NG2. 40% more pixels on screen. Beat that X360 fans.

Grand Theft Auto IV = 1280x720 (2xAA) vs Grand Theft Auto IV = 1152x640 (no AA) (921,600 vs 737280) or a 20% difference with AA for the Xbox360. It just proves that in Apples to apples, the Xbox360 apple is bigger and tastier. Beaten it.

obieslut said: Squilliam said: @obieslut they probably will try to hit 100% possible usage on the 4 inline SPEs next up. Thats 4/6 or 66% of the available SPEs. Thats as low as the low hanging fruit hangs and it seems like the next obvious goal for an incremental but noticeable improvement in the technology.   i think you are right, you dont want to max out the hardware so early into its life or you will get the Gears effect

Actually I was thinking the Alan Wait and the Kill-later 2 effect. You don't want to set the bar so high that you cause yourself delays needlessly. So it makes sense to move more cautiously and let the technology and techniques develop without trying to force it and waste tons of $$$ and time in the process.

davygee said: Sorry, but Ninja Gaiden 2 on the 360 runs natively at a resolution of 1120x585 (check the link), whereas Uncharted runs at 1280x720, which means that Uncharted has 40% more pixels on screen at the one time than Ninja Gaiden 2.

Welcome to 15 posts ago in the discussion...

When doing technical comparisons, you can't divorce resolution from frame-rate. A 1080p slide-show also has more pixels on the screen than any of the games we mentioned, but it's meaningless as far as technical capability is concerned.

A fair measure to compare is pixels per second:

Uncharted - 30 fps @ 1280x720 = 27.6 million pixels per second.

NG2 - 60 fps @ 1120x585 = 39.3 million pixels per second.

Because of this, I realize that the Uncharted vs NG2 comparison is not the best, but I pointed that out as soon as I started talking about NG2/Uncharted.

 

Squilliam said: Rock_on_2008 said: davygee said: Sorry, but Ninja Gaiden 2 on the 360 runs natively at a resolution of 1120x585 (check the link), whereas Uncharted runs at 1280x720, which means that Uncharted has 40% more pixels on screen at the one time than Ninja Gaiden 2. Proves that Uncharted is far superior than NG2. 40% more pixels on screen. Beat that X360 fans.     Grand Theft Auto IV = 1280x720 (2xAA) vs Grand Theft Auto IV = 1152x640 (no AA) (921,600 vs 737280) or a 20% difference with AA for the Xbox360. It just proves that in Apples to apples, the Xbox360 apple is bigger and tastier. Beaten it.

 

Not really, developers go for the best looking thing. They could have done Halo in a lot higher resolution, but chose to lower it, because within the limits of the hardware, the got a better overall image.

GTA4 looks better on the PS3. The developers used all the tools they had to make the best looking image (one of those tools is Pixel count). The collective use of the PS3's capabilities proved to be better then the collective used of the 360's. Using nothing but resolution to determine power is misleading.

MikeB said: @ selnor I am impressed, that article is so horribly flawed in almost any sense and you know it else Halo 3 would have kicked the arse of what Killzone 2 will be. It's clearly written by someone who knows nothing about neither system. Why quote it? It's just a compilation of fanboy misconceptions.

I love when people use Halo 3. Halo 3 was designed that way from an art point of view. Bungie said they did not want to go for a realistic look and break up the Halo trilogy effect. In terms of on screen enemies and such Halo 3 has far more than ive seen on KZ2 so far. And the way games are made still point to general purpose processing. Crysis is a tale of that. That article wasnt from some editor of a review site. It was from M$ after Sony claimed the PS3 a god machine. See M$ have worked in the PC market for a long time. They have worked with hundreds of CPU's to get the best from their software and I'm sure they know what they are talking about. DX10 is set up to use general purpose processing. Sony have had far less involvement with CPU tech than M$. Keep in mind that Sony has a track record of over promising and under delivering on technical performance.

 

 

Squilliam said: obieslut said: Squilliam said: @obieslut they probably will try to hit 100% possible usage on the 4 inline SPEs next up. Thats 4/6 or 66% of the available SPEs. Thats as low as the low hanging fruit hangs and it seems like the next obvious goal for an incremental but noticeable improvement in the technology.   i think you are right, you dont want to max out the hardware so early into its life or you will get the Gears effect   Actually I was thinking the Alan Wait and the Kill-later 2 effect. You don't want to set the bar so high that you cause yourself delays needlessly. So it makes sense to move more cautiously and let the technology and techniques develop without trying to force it and waste tons of $$$ and time in the process.

i wonder whats going to be the killzone 2 effect. i think sony are going to get some whiplash of that unless every developer is willing to put out th emoney for the games to carry on looking like that

 

Squilliam said: Rock_on_2008 said: davygee said: Sorry, but Ninja Gaiden 2 on the 360 runs natively at a resolution of 1120x585 (check the link), whereas Uncharted runs at 1280x720, which means that Uncharted has 40% more pixels on screen at the one time than Ninja Gaiden 2. Proves that Uncharted is far superior than NG2. 40% more pixels on screen. Beat that X360 fans.   Grand Theft Auto IV = 1280x720 (2xAA) vs Grand Theft Auto IV = 1152x640 (no AA) (921,600 vs 737280) or a 20% difference with AA for the Xbox360. It just proves that in Apples to apples, the Xbox360 apple is bigger and tastier. Beaten it.

Actually isn't Uncharted 30fps and NG2 60fps? That makes it more than 2 times more work for X360 in NG2. (You know, you need to move things between frames & so on. Its really not comparable to larger resolution) With 30fps you can render it many times to get different kind of effects on the screen.

Anyway, that link is unreliable! (At least according to obieslut, heh. Yeah, I know ppl on b3d are highly skilled.)

 

@obieslut

So... Wii is also much more powerful than X360? It was released after X360, wasn't it? :)

TheRealMafoo said:   The PlayStation 3 has a lot of power. When we started Uncharted we were really ambitious and had no idea what the PS3 would give us. Once we got the first devkits, we realized quickly that we could do everything we had planned to. The three main points for me are the Cell, Blu-Ray and the hard drive. We’ve been using the Cell for pretty much all our systems: rendering, particles, physics simulation, collision detection, animation, AI, decompression, water simulation, etc … and to give you an idea of the power of the PS3, we're using only 30 percent of the Cell processor. http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/10/30/getting-technical-with-naughty-dog-co-president-christophe-balestra

Any game engine running on a multi-core CPU (basically any modern CPU) is not going to use the CPU to the max. Calculating a frame is a series of processes with dependencies among each other. There's a limit to how much you can parallelize things to the point of getting near the peak power of a CPU.

These CPU percentages will keep improving with newer engines, obviously, but not as much as "we're only using 30%" makes it seem.

I think the biggest technical achievement in Uncharted is the fact that there are no loading screens, but that's not something which affects graphics.

 

Deneidez said: Squilliam said: Rock_on_2008 said: davygee said: Sorry, but Ninja Gaiden 2 on the 360 runs natively at a resolution of 1120x585 (check the link), whereas Uncharted runs at 1280x720, which means that Uncharted has 40% more pixels on screen at the one time than Ninja Gaiden 2. Proves that Uncharted is far superior than NG2. 40% more pixels on screen. Beat that X360 fans.   Grand Theft Auto IV = 1280x720 (2xAA) vs Grand Theft Auto IV = 1152x640 (no AA) (921,600 vs 737280) or a 20% difference with AA for the Xbox360. It just proves that in Apples to apples, the Xbox360 apple is bigger and tastier. Beaten it. Actually isn't Uncharted 30fps and NG2 60fps? That makes it more than 2 times more work for X360 in NG2. (You know, you need to move things between frames & so on. Its really not compared to larger resolution) With 30fps you can render it many times to get different kind of effects on the screen. Anyway, that link is unreliable! (At least according to obieslut, heh. Yeah, I know ppl on b3d are highly skilled.)   @obieslut Listen people the ps3 was released after the 360 so what do you expect realy. its like saying 7900 is better then 9900. ok probs not that extreme but you got the idea So... Wii is also much more powerful than X360? It was released after X360, wasn't it? :)

the wii wasnt ment to be powerfull, it was already outdate befoe it already got released