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Forums - Sales - How much money is Sony losing with the PSN?

Bodhesatva said:
dallas said:
The PSN is probably losing money and will keep doing so until it starts getting money from:

1. Movies
2. Advertising, which HOME would be especially good for as Sony will be running trailers in its theatre area, and they will probably bring in some kind of advertising for products that gamers like such as energy drinks ( a little Mountain Dew machine lol) , etc

 

 Yeah, I think Home advertising will be the key. I'll be interested to see how they implement it.

Many people in here seem disbelieving or even stunned that PSN could be losing  money; it's apparent that you haven't thought this all the way through. I've mentioned this many times and get virtually no response, which is usually a sign that people aren't listening, and apparently that is the case.

Infrastructures like PSN cost millions of dollars to upkeep. The bandwidth necessary is enormous, and server hardware needs to be purchased, maintained and serviced. Likely over the course of a year, PSN costs 200-300 million dollars to maintain and update, some of which is recouped by store purchases.

 

As a comparable example, consider Blizzard's online game, World of Warcraft. Last year, they made 550 million dollars in profit -- more than EA, Activision, Konami, Ubisoft, Midway, SCi/Eidos, Sega, and Capcom combined. But how much was their revenue? Approximately 1.2 billion dollars. Even putting aside 300 million dollars for future game development and taxes (this is a very conservative estimate, for those who don't konw), that puts server infrastructure for this game at 350 million dollars. 350 million, just for WoW upkeep!

At this point, the entirety of PSN is smaller than World of Warcraft, but it's growing quickly and needs to be upgraded. Again, I'd guess somewhere in the 200-300 million range.

Aside from servers to host PS Store content (which presumably pays for itself and then some), servers to host firmware updates, and the development of new firmware, what would Sony be spending money on?  They only host servers for their own IPs (ie Warhawk, Resistance, and maybe GT5P), none of which have very large player bases. 

Epic hosts the servers for UT3, Call of Duty 4 is P2P, etc.  Sony pays for none of this.

That's the difference between XBL and PSN.  On XBL developers must conform to Microsoft's standards, but they recieve ample help to do so, including XBL toolsets, servers to host patches, leaderboards, etc.  With the PSN, developers are free to do whatever they want, however they have to do it all themselves (which is why UT3 on the ps3 will support mods, while the 360 version will not, for example).

I can't see what Sony could be spending hundreds of millions of dollars on.

Now Home, that's a different matter.  It will require loads of servers, but they'll be paid for by in-service advertising.



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Bodhesatva said:
dallas said:
The PSN is probably losing money and will keep doing so until it starts getting money from:

1. Movies
2. Advertising, which HOME would be especially good for as Sony will be running trailers in its theatre area, and they will probably bring in some kind of advertising for products that gamers like such as energy drinks ( a little Mountain Dew machine lol) , etc

 

Yeah, I think Home advertising will be the key. I'll be interested to see how they implement it.

Many people in here seem disbelieving or even stunned that PSN could be losing money; it's apparent that you haven't thought this all the way through. I've mentioned this many times and get virtually no response, which is usually a sign that people aren't listening, and apparently that is the case.

Infrastructures like PSN cost millions of dollars to upkeep. The bandwidth necessary is enormous, and server hardware needs to be purchased, maintained and serviced. Likely over the course of a year, PSN costs 200-300 million dollars to maintain and update, some of which is recouped by store purchases.

 

As a comparable example, consider Blizzard's online game, World of Warcraft. Last year, they made 550 million dollars in profit -- more than EA, Activision, Konami, Ubisoft, Midway, SCi/Eidos, Sega, and Capcom combined. But how much was their revenue? Approximately 1.2 billion dollars. Even putting aside 300 million dollars for future game development and taxes (this is a very conservative estimate, for those who don't konw), that puts server infrastructure for this game at 350 million dollars. 350 million, just for WoW upkeep!

At this point, the entirety of PSN is smaller than World of Warcraft, but it's growing quickly and needs to be upgraded. Again, I'd guess somewhere in the 200-300 million range.

I don't think you thought that through all the way to the end yourself.  Blizzard may have huge server and bandwidth up keep, but that is because for once they didn't make the best game possible.  Guild Wars has well over 1 million accounts and after being badgered about population levels at the end of last year one of the cofounders for Arena Net said that population had never been higher.  In last years financials, NCSoft said that Arena Net made 24 million dollars in profit, not bad for considering that they don't charge for online.  Hell, Guild Wars can be played on a dial up modem yet Diablo 2, which also has free online, suggested on the box to have at least 28.8 kbps internet for smooth play.  All online play outside of MMOs and xbox live are free so I don't think server costs and bandwidth are as big a deal as they are made out to be, if the developers put the time that is required into the code.



$24 million dollars is chump change compared to what WoW or any other big pay to play MMO makes.



mr.elite said:
Strategyking92 said:
Million said:
PIMP said:
Million said:

Well sony do sell software on PSN don't they ? which will at the very least cover the costs of PSN .

So the answer i believe is nothing.

LOL. PSN doesn't even have software and an install base comparable to XBL so I doubt they are not losing out on it. Including HOME and I bet they are losing a lot of money. Looks like MS are the smarts ones and cashing in big time and we can see the effects(timed exclusives, DLC GTA4)

 

Your post really doesn't deserve a response but i'm a nice person so i will anyway. Mr PIMP your not going to last long on this site , i'm guessing you'll be banned before post 30.

but he is right about this.

 

 

Not really he isnt. First the install base, there are about 12 million live users compared to about 10 million PSN users, I'd say thats comparable. Also the software for PSN is constantly being added onto but ill give him this one that obviously live has more content, its been out 14 months longer. As for the buying of timed exclusives and the GTA 4, we are yet to see just how "smart" microsoft was for these moves. Especially the dlc for gta4.

 

 well... that's a little misleading. You can't tell how many of those players spend any money on the psn service, whereas how many number of people pay for the xbox live service And pay for games and extra content. And also the ads in the xbox live marketplace brings in more money.

 

Yeah, I don't know if GTA4 content will make that big of a splash either.



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Strategyking92 said:
mr.elite said:
Strategyking92 said:
Million said:
PIMP said:
Million said:

Well sony do sell software on PSN don't they ? which will at the very least cover the costs of PSN .

So the answer i believe is nothing.

LOL. PSN doesn't even have software and an install base comparable to XBL so I doubt they are not losing out on it. Including HOME and I bet they are losing a lot of money. Looks like MS are the smarts ones and cashing in big time and we can see the effects(timed exclusives, DLC GTA4)

 

Your post really doesn't deserve a response but i'm a nice person so i will anyway. Mr PIMP your not going to last long on this site , i'm guessing you'll be banned before post 30.

but he is right about this.

 

 

Not really he isnt. First the install base, there are about 12 million live users compared to about 10 million PSN users, I'd say thats comparable. Also the software for PSN is constantly being added onto but ill give him this one that obviously live has more content, its been out 14 months longer. As for the buying of timed exclusives and the GTA 4, we are yet to see just how "smart" microsoft was for these moves. Especially the dlc for gta4.

 

well... that's a little misleading. You can't tell how many of those players spend any money on the psn service, whereas how many number of people pay for the xbox live service And pay for games and extra content. And also the ads in the xbox live marketplace brings in more money.

 

Yeah, I don't know if GTA4 content will make that big of a splash either.

 

Apparently there have been over 170 million downloads on the PSN.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/over-9-8-million-registered-for-psn



B

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those games have a monthly fee, I would hope they could manage more than 24 million. Considering that Arena Net has only released 4 games over three years and are able to retain those players over three years and add to the player base while still making money is pretty damned good for a game that is completely online.



FishyJoe said:
I honestly don't even see how this can be discussed in the total absence of reliable data.

 

The only sensible answer.





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DMeisterJ said:
Wow, I didn't think of it like that. And we don't really have any hard data off of sales on the PSN, so who knows how well games sell and don't.

 

 The only data we have is when Sony annouced EU PSN sales at Leipzig 2007 in August. The top selling title was Tekken 5 with 103k sales. And that's also Europe with 4.5 months of sales and availbility.



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