I have a pc, I play pc games, I play pc games for free online, and I still pay for Live. Maybe I have too much money to waste, or maybe I realize that when I go to the grocery store I just won't pick up those crackers once a month. LOL. Well I too am mad that M$ has been swindling me. They have completely taken up all my time for the past several years with awesome games and awesome online experiences.

greenmedic88 said: JaggedSac said: Bunch of lame jibber jabber on this site. Oh no XBox Live is not free. Waaaah, waaah...Live costs $50 a year. Well my rent costs me $11,400 a year. I guess I could not eat breakfast once a month to make up for it. Nobody who spends less than $1k a month on rent spends over $1k a month on breakfast. Not even close. $50 for breakfast, 5 times a week during the work week is $250 a week or just over $1000 a month. Not too many people with a PSN account would pay $50 a year for XBL either.

WTF???  Who said I spent $50 a day on breakfast?  Can you explain yourself?

Ok, I see what happened. You think I was saying that I would not eat breakfast in order to make up for the rent money. I was speaking about the cost of Live, which is equal to one breakfast a month.

Rock_on_2008 said: makingmusic476 said: ToastyJaguar said: TheRealMafoo said: If MS wants to sell more 360's, they need to lower the price. PC's are now a lot more powerful, and for the price of a 360, you can get a good PC. 90% of all the 360 games can be played on a PC. If MS has more exclusive 360 games, I think it would have a better shot of selling well.   I think it's more like 25% percent   23 of the 42 games (full games, not XBLA games) in the 360 "exclusive" thread will be released on PC. And that number should really only be 41, as he included the Last Remnant, a game that will be hitting the ps3. And that's just the games in that thread. What about all the pc/ps3/360 multiplats like DMC4 and Assassin's Creed? And what about the games like Gears 2 that are currently listed as 360 only but will inevitably come to the PC? The fact is a majority of the 360's games come to the PC, usually in a superior form. For guys like me, that makes the 360 a waste of money. The cost of buying a new PC to be able to play the latest games exceeds the cost of a 360. Customisable PC's can be built by yourself providing you know what to buy. PC's are outdated within two years. 360 price are falling. Another 360 price cut is going to arrive in NA soon.

 

Not everybody buys a brand new computer when they only want to replace something like their video card (assuming they have a custom rig as oppsed to something like a Dell). My video card is like 4 years old and has been decent enough to display games (with some effects turned down) and getting a playable frame rate.

As somebody who plays games on the computer, I'd much rather take that $350-$450 (Premium or Elite. No way I'd get a core/arcade), the money I'd have to spend to play those games online through Xbox Live, and at least $10 per game I'd save ($60 console vs $50 PC new) and put that into upgrades (such as a new video card). So, what reason would I really need a 360 for?

Also, don't forget that PC's aren't just for games so the cost of upgrading isn't completely wasted just on games.

Because its got no games I want....so it would be a very unwise investment

this may be true now, but the RRoD is more or less fixed now anyway and I didn't have the impression that we discussed the RRoD as detrimental for buying NOW.
The discussion started when you asked why RRoD was a problem at all and you said electronic devices do not hold for longer than 3 years anyway. And both statements are at best problematic and I argumented against them. So yes if you think the BC of the Xbox 720 will be good and you don't care about the hazzle of sending in your console should it fail you could disregard RRoD NOW. But that was not the question I was discussing.



Sorry but I do not like to copy/paste the whole post I am answering to. Worst thing you can do for thread readability. I try to copy the most important line I am answering so context is given. I do not think that I pulled this statement out of context though. If you think otherwise an example would be helpful.

IllegalPaladin said: Rock_on_2008 said: makingmusic476 said: ToastyJaguar said: TheRealMafoo said: If MS wants to sell more 360's, they need to lower the price. PC's are now a lot more powerful, and for the price of a 360, you can get a good PC. 90% of all the 360 games can be played on a PC. If MS has more exclusive 360 games, I think it would have a better shot of selling well.   I think it's more like 25% percent   23 of the 42 games (full games, not XBLA games) in the 360 "exclusive" thread will be released on PC. And that number should really only be 41, as he included the Last Remnant, a game that will be hitting the ps3. And that's just the games in that thread. What about all the pc/ps3/360 multiplats like DMC4 and Assassin's Creed? And what about the games like Gears 2 that are currently listed as 360 only but will inevitably come to the PC? The fact is a majority of the 360's games come to the PC, usually in a superior form. For guys like me, that makes the 360 a waste of money. The cost of buying a new PC to be able to play the latest games exceeds the cost of a 360. Customisable PC's can be built by yourself providing you know what to buy. PC's are outdated within two years. 360 price are falling. Another 360 price cut is going to arrive in NA soon.     Not everybody buys a brand new computer when they only want to replace something like their video card (assuming they have a custom rig as oppsed to something like a Dell). My video card is like 4 years old and has been decent enough to display games (with some effects turned down) and getting a playable frame rate. As somebody who plays games on the computer, I'd much rather take that $350-$450 (Premium or Elite. No way I'd get a core/arcade), the money I'd have to spend to play those games online through Xbox Live, and at least $10 per game I'd save ($60 console vs $50 PC new) and put that into upgrades (such as a new video card) and what reason would I really need a 360 for? Also, don't forget that PC's aren't just for games so the cost of upgrading isn't completely wasted just on games.

Technically, the main cost for gaming on a PC is the video card. The only other restrictions would be the PSU depending on your CPU and video card and most likely RAM, if you're using an older computer.

But RAM is ridiculously cheap these days to the point that I don't see why the complaint about having to upgrade to run more memory intensive apps is still being kicked around. Good PSUs can be bought for well under $100 as well.

Once you have a decent gaming PC, then the 360 does look a lot less appealing as an additional gaming platform simply due to the fact that most of the big exclusives end up on Games for Windows. Gears of War, Bioshock and Mass Effect were all games I bought a 360 for, but would all play better on my PC. The extra $10 Xbox licensing fee isn't bad, but considering the PC version runs better, assuming it's being played on a superior hardware set up, the extra cost is something one would logically only be willing to pay if the 360 was their only gaming solution.

Unless you game a lot on XBL, the 360 is pretty redundant. Beyond that it's the 360 controller, which is available as a dual platform PC compatible peripheral.

Personally, I probably would have been better off dropping the money spent on the 360 and peripherals into a better gaming PC, but there's nothing wrong with having as many platform options as possible if you're a dedicated gaming nut and you are willing to overlook the overlap that inevitably occurs.

 

Kyros said: At the end of the warranty for one bought today it would be going on 6 years for it. this may be true now, but the RRoD is more or less fixed now anyway and I didn't have the impression that we discussed the RRoD as detrimental for buying NOW. The discussion started when you asked why RRoD was a problem at all and you said electronic devices do not hold for longer than 3 years anyway. And both statements are at best problematic and I argumented against them. So yes if you think the BC of the Xbox 720 will be good and you don't care about the hazzle of sending in your console should it fail you could disregard RRoD NOW. But that was not the question I was discussing. You should really try using the context of an arguement rather than a single stand alone line. Sorry but I do not like to copy/paste the whole post I am answering to. Worst thing you can do for thread readability. I try to copy the most important line I am answering so context is given. I do not think that I pulled this statement out of context though. If you think otherwise an example would be helpful.

 

 Ok I assumed you were just being difficult and intentionally changing the time frame of my statement. I'm sorry for that. I am just too used to only arguing with rabid fanboys on this site who would do something that dishonest. The quoting one line is fine by me so long as you use it as it was intended. I realize now I was not as clear as I intended. I meant from the time the warranty actually kicked in and onwards. Early on it was a huge issue as it was not covered outside the one year warranty and that was messed up. My statement is meant to be based on today forward.

 I don't think that is the problem. Your sentence implies that you could skip breakfast once a month and pay for live for the entire year which would be $50 for breakfast. What you meant (I assume) is that skipping breakfast once a month pays for live for that month.

Machina-AX said: Garcian Smith said: DOATS1 said: it's loud, accessories aren't cheap, some things that should come as standard don't, you have to pay to play online, there are still a few reasons not to get a 360. i feel safe in getting a 360, that's why i have one, but the average joe either still associates rrod with the 360, or just isn't interested. My 360, at least, isn't loud. At least, I've never noticed it while playing. Accessories aren't cheap for any system. And with the 360, you really don't need anything else out of the box to get it up and running (unless you run HDMI and/or digital audio, and HDMI and TOSLINK cables are dirt-cheap.) What should come standard with the 360 that doesn't, exactly? I can't think of a single thing. Yeah, the paying to play online is kind of stupid. The online service, IMO, isn't anything special. But it's only five bucks a month, so it's not like you're paying out the wazoo or anything.   Not loud? wow, wanna swap with mine? -Plug and Play Kit & Wireless internet are the 2 things I bought separately that I think should be included, at least in the elite version or something

Mine isn't loud too. Sound from new models are in times quieter.

 

greenmedic88 said: IllegalPaladin said: Rock_on_2008 said: makingmusic476 said: ToastyJaguar said: TheRealMafoo said:         Not everybody buys a brand new computer when they only want to replace something like their video card (assuming they have a custom rig as oppsed to something like a Dell). My video card is like 4 years old and has been decent enough to display games (with some effects turned down) and getting a playable frame rate. As somebody who plays games on the computer, I'd much rather take that $350-$450 (Premium or Elite. No way I'd get a core/arcade), the money I'd have to spend to play those games online through Xbox Live, and at least $10 per game I'd save ($60 console vs $50 PC new) and put that into upgrades (such as a new video card) and what reason would I really need a 360 for? Also, don't forget that PC's aren't just for games so the cost of upgrading isn't completely wasted just on games. Technically, the main cost for gaming on a PC is the video card. The only other restrictions would be the PSU depending on your CPU and video card and most likely RAM, if you're using an older computer. But RAM is ridiculously cheap these days to the point that I don't see why the complaint about having to upgrade to run more memory intensive apps is still being kicked around. Good PSUs can be bought for well under $100 as well. Once you have a decent gaming PC, then the 360 does look a lot less appealing as an additional gaming platform simply due to the fact that most of the big exclusives end up on Games for Windows. Gears of War, Bioshock and Mass Effect were all games I bought a 360 for, but would all play better on my PC. The extra $10 Xbox licensing fee isn't bad, but considering the PC version runs better, assuming it's being played on a superior hardware set up, the extra cost is something one would logically only be willing to pay if the 360 was their only gaming solution. Unless you game a lot on XBL, the 360 is pretty redundant. Beyond that it's the 360 controller, which is available as a dual platform PC compatible peripheral. Personally, I probably would have been better off dropping the money spent on the 360 and peripherals into a better gaming PC, but there's nothing wrong with having as many platform options as possible if you're a dedicated gaming nut and you are willing to overlook the overlap that inevitably occurs.

 

Exactly, I was kind of stupid when I first had my computer built and could have saved a bit of money if I did some things differently. This time around, it only cost me around $570 to replace the case and everything inside (except for the video card).

Furthermore, I'm not sure why anti-PC people think like this, but you don't need to have the best parts or need to get the best performance in a game either. I think people expect that if somebody is going to play a game on the PC that's also on the consoles, they should have a computer that can run it much better than the console can. Even worse, that computer is expected to cost $3000+ and hardly be able to last.

When it comes to the video card, I'm currently waiting to see what'll happen (and to try and get some more money). I was thinking about the 8800gt, but then that Radeon 4850 came out for around $200 and the 9800GTX has been lowered to match that price. It looks like it ought to throw the 8800gt and the 8800GTS (g92) into even lower prices, but they're all rather similar in price currently on newegg.