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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii and the third-party "doom"

Well, you said you agreed with it in its entirety; pick a definition, and I'll see if we can make a bet that suits you. I refuse to only count 'quality/main' titles, because quality is too subjective and 'main' means that one could easily discount a game like Spyborgs, which a Capcom representative has said is one of the two biggest games that Capcom USA is making.

The only fair metric is number of games announced; e3 isn't exactly known for being a huge announcement platform for shovelware, so it's not like Conspiracy Entertainment (or whoever) will be announcing games there.

If you don't think that the PS3/360 will get more games than the Wii, just say so. If you do, put your (metaphorical) money where your mouth is.

Personally, I think that in terms of overall games, it will be Wii by a landslide, and in terms of 'major franchises', i expect Wii to be at most 3 announced titles behind the combined PS3/360. Would you be willing to do a double bet? Avatar if Wii is within 3 'major franchises' announcements, sig for 'total games'?



Please, PLEASE do NOT feed the trolls.
fksumot tag: "Sheik had to become a man to be useful. Or less useful. Might depend if you're bi."

--Predictions--
1) WiiFit will outsell the pokemans.
  Current Status: 2009.01.10 70k till PKMN Yellow (Passed: Emerald, Crystal, FR/LG)

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Two things are interesting about this generation.

1: As of right now the wii is the leading console in the market thats got the least amount of benefit from being the leading console. Thats for a number of reasons that aren't worth going into, but it will change.

2: The other consoles in the market are for the first time getting just as good announcements as the leading console. Its not a one horse race anymore.

What does this all mean? The games industry is growing and it can effectively accommodate several consoles. This is a good thing.



FaithRaven said:
flames_of said:
@ Faithraven
True, some will aim high... But a few too many may aim low.

But thats how everything works. 95% crap games around 5% good games. 95% crap people around 5% good people and so on.

 

 Wow... that's got to be the most depressing outlook on life I've ever seen... I'ma cry now...

My point of view:

I understand Flame's thought process, but there's a fundamental flaw: As has already been stated, some of the big publishers are currently putting out crap on the Wii.  However, that looks to be changing very soon, and very rapidly.  The Wii is finally getting its' share of big-name exclusives and quality multiplats from top-tier developers, like Namco, Tecmo, LucasArts, Capcom, and Square.  I won't list them for the umpteenth time, but they vary quite widely in genre--hell, even with the limited list we have now (which will definitely be expanded at E3), we have:

-shooters

-RPGs

-more sports games than last year

-stealth games

-sword-fighting games (with lightsabers, no less!XD)

-mature (read: gorey) action brawlers

-horror games

-Tons of others that defy classification, such as De Blob and World of Goo.

 

  I didn't give that list just to, yet again, show how the third-party support is growing exponentially (which it is).  Rather, I did it to point out that, once the Wii's library starts to get more diversified, these developers that need the extra cash to fund their moneysinking big-budget HD games will have to work for it.

  Once there's a decent selection of games from all genres (which there will be soon), just putting out "X-theme Party!" won't cut it.  Sure, there will always be a market for this type of game, like there always has been, but by and large, third-parties will soon have too much competition on the Wii to be able to simply crap out an 'exclusive' mini-game compilation with early-PS2 graphics.

  Couple that with the fact that, as I said before, and as many have been apt to point out, HD dev costs are getting too high not to be supplemented somehow, and with the Wii being an easy source for said supplementing, and third-parties will soon be forced to up their game on Wii.  Which, at the very minimum, means that the Wii will get just as many big exclusives as the other consoles.

  In one year, the story will be completely different than it is now.



Could I trouble you for some maple syrup to go with the plate of roffles you just served up?

Tag, courtesy of fkusumot: "Why do most of the PS3 fanboys have avatars that looks totally pissed?"
"Ok, girl's trapped in the elevator, and the power's off.  I swear, if a zombie comes around the next corner..."

Well third party's could start off with cheap cash ins and with the profits from them maybe move on to more ambitious projects.



alpha_dk said:
windbane said:
*bleu-ocelot* said:
NJ5 said:

I wonder how the industry would be like without MS's/Sony's payments to third parties. Would they be able to develop the games they're developing, and survive?

A lot of companies making HD games are subsidized by those companies' pockets, of that I'm sure.

 


 

Yeah right.Those out of pocket purchases account for a minority of the 3rd party support,that the 360/PS3 receive.Third party developers choose the PS3/360 as their platforms of choice because it's the ideal platforms for their games and audience.Not knocking the wii,but a majority of the third party support will continue to go to the 360/PS3 regardless of how well the wii does.imo

I agree with this entirely.

Are either of you willing to take a bet about this? Say, use of Avatar/sig for a while, or something else?

Terms of bet if either of you are willing:

I say that the # of Third Party Wii games announced at E3 will be greater than PS3/360 combined (PS3/360 multiplats only get counted once, not twice) (any games that come to Wii in addition to one or both of the PS3/360 games can either not be added to any, or be added to both; it is a net null gain). If either of you two are willing to take that bet, then please tell me what you would like to bet.

 

I would consider this bet but there is one major flaw.  Say SE announces that the FF team will be working on FF14 when they are done (duh) and it will be coming to the Wii, that is great and all but it won't be out for a hell of a long time.



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alpha_dk said:
Well, you said you agreed with it in its entirety; pick a definition, and I'll see if we can make a bet that suits you. I refuse to only count 'quality/main' titles, because quality is too subjective and 'main' means that one could easily discount a game like Spyborgs, which a Capcom representative has said is one of the two biggest games that Capcom USA is making.

The only fair metric is number of games announced; e3 isn't exactly known for being a huge announcement platform for shovelware, so it's not like Conspiracy Entertainment (or whoever) will be announcing games there.

If you don't think that the PS3/360 will get more games than the Wii, just say so. If you do, put your (metaphorical) money where your mouth is.

Personally, I think that in terms of overall games, it will be Wii by a landslide, and in terms of 'major franchises', i expect Wii to be at most 3 announced titles behind the combined PS3/360. Would you be willing to do a double bet? Avatar if Wii is within 3 'major franchises' announcements, sig for 'total games'?

I agreed with him that the Wii isn't getting the majority of third party releases, especialy if the word quality is used, which can be judged by metacritic. How about you just quote me in your sig if I'm wrong? I don't care to change your avatar or sig or whatever. I said quality titles don't make for a good bet, so we agree there. Btw, not every publisher will even be at E3. Activision and Lucas Arts for 2. I don't know why you think shovelware isn't shown off at E3, though. The booths are huge and lots of games are shown. Regardless, feel free to quote me as saying I don't think the Wii will have more third party games announced for it than the other 2 systems.



windbane said:
alpha_dk said:
Well, you said you agreed with it in its entirety; pick a definition, and I'll see if we can make a bet that suits you. I refuse to only count 'quality/main' titles, because quality is too subjective and 'main' means that one could easily discount a game like Spyborgs, which a Capcom representative has said is one of the two biggest games that Capcom USA is making.

The only fair metric is number of games announced; e3 isn't exactly known for being a huge announcement platform for shovelware, so it's not like Conspiracy Entertainment (or whoever) will be announcing games there.

If you don't think that the PS3/360 will get more games than the Wii, just say so. If you do, put your (metaphorical) money where your mouth is.

Personally, I think that in terms of overall games, it will be Wii by a landslide, and in terms of 'major franchises', i expect Wii to be at most 3 announced titles behind the combined PS3/360. Would you be willing to do a double bet? Avatar if Wii is within 3 'major franchises' announcements, sig for 'total games'?

I agreed with him that the Wii isn't getting the majority of third party releases, especialy if the word quality is used, which can be judged by metacritic. How about you just quote me in your sig if I'm wrong? I don't care to change your avatar or sig or whatever. I said quality titles don't make for a good bet, so we agree there. Btw, not every publisher will even be at E3. Activision and Lucas Arts for 2. I don't know why you think shovelware isn't shown off at E3, though. The booths are huge and lots of games are shown. Regardless, feel free to quote me as saying I don't think the Wii will have more third party games announced for it than the other 2 systems.

LucasArts will be at E3.



windbane said:
Smash_Brother: The only objective way to look at it is using metacritic/gamerankings of past and present games, and I think the proof is there already.

Halo is owned by Microsoft.

If GTA went to Wii, it would be as big of a deal as it was when it went to PSP. The problem is there aren't many big-name released from third parties on Wii. I think the change would be Wii owners would stop bashing GTA, actually.

 

1. If all you looked at was game rankings, the PS2 would show to be the worst console ever.

2. I'm well aware that Halo is owned by MS. I'm talking about a purely hypothetical situation.

3. Some, perhaps, but Manhunt 2 was a terrible game. The controls were just plain awful which made the game clunky and nearly unplayable. Point is, I'm not about to give a game a free pass just because it's on a console I prefer.



"I mean, c'mon, Viva Pinata, a game with massive marketing, didn't sell worth a damn to the "sophisticated" 360 audience, despite near-universal praise--is that a sign that 360 owners are a bunch of casual ignoramuses that can't get their heads around a 'gardening' sim? Of course not. So let's please stop trying to micro-analyze one game out of hundreds and using it as the poster child for why good, non-1st party, games can't sell on Wii. (Everyone frequenting this site knows this is nonsense, and yet some of you just can't let it go because it's the only scab you have left to pick at after all your other "Wii will phail1!!1" straw men arguments have been put to the torch.)" - exindguy on Boom Blocks

Smash_Brother said:
windbane said:
Smash_Brother: The only objective way to look at it is using metacritic/gamerankings of past and present games, and I think the proof is there already.

Halo is owned by Microsoft.

If GTA went to Wii, it would be as big of a deal as it was when it went to PSP. The problem is there aren't many big-name released from third parties on Wii. I think the change would be Wii owners would stop bashing GTA, actually.

 

1. If all you looked at was game rankings, the PS2 would show to be the worst console ever.

2. I'm well aware that Halo is owned by MS. I'm talking about a purely hypothetical situation.

3. Some, perhaps, but Manhunt 2 was a terrible game. The controls were just plain awful which made the game clunky and nearly unplayable. Point is, I'm not about to give a game a free pass just because it's on a console I prefer.

I love my Wii, but the fact that it suffers from a serious lack of great games so far is pretty clear.

A glance at PS2 ratings on metacritic reveals 63 titles with score between 90-100 and another 255 titles between 80 and 90. 

The PS2 has been around for roughly 7.5 years, so that means PS2 has had an average of:

8.4 titles each year that scored above 90 and

34 titles each year that scored between 80 and 90.

The Wii in comparison over the past 1.5 years has had 5 titles that scored above 90 and another 20 titles between 80 and 90.  To make it comparable to PS2 library quality, it needs to have had about 13 and 51 titles in these score ranges.  Even if you compare the early releases only, by 2001, PS2 had 14 titles above 90 and 45 titles between 80 and 90.  The Wii has far to go to catch up.

The PS2 got a lot of shovelware, but it also got a lot of great games.  The Wii seems to be getting the shovelware but not the great games.  I hope this changes and fast.

 



More developers may drop out of E3 before the event actually comes around...



flames_of - "I think you're confusing Bush with Chuck Norris."

 Wii: 80-85 Million end of 2009 (1.1.09)