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Forums - Sony - My altered view of MGS4 now that I've beaten it.

DTG said:
rocketpig said:
Oh, cut-scene based games can tell a good story. That wasn't my point. My point that any cut-scene heavy game is avoiding the strengths of the medium and instead trying to turn it into a more familiar medium with more limitations, like movies.

 

Why must every aspect of a mans work embrace the "strength" of a medium? Do many books not contain pictures in them? Do many movies not contain written references in them? Wy should a game limit itself to a particular style when it can blend several together - namely movies and games? The gameplay is still there however the story is presented as a movie blending two mediums in a stroke of a genius, something most artists wish to achieve.


You've argued this before and people have proven you wrong.

How many movies spend half the time with only text on screen, using it to communicate almost the entire story?

MGS4 does a terrible job of blending movies and games together. There are plenty of games that do an excellent job of blending a cinematic experience with gameplay, but I guess you haven't played them.

Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

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DTG said:
rocketpig said:
Oh, cut-scene based games can tell a good story. That wasn't my point. My point that any cut-scene heavy game is avoiding the strengths of the medium and instead trying to turn it into a more familiar medium with more limitations, like movies.

 

Why must every aspect of a mans work embrace the "strength" of a medium? Do many books not contain pictures in them? Do many movies not contain written references in them? Wy should a game limit itself to a particular style when it can blend several together - namely movies and games? The gameplay is still there however the story is presented as a movie blending two mediums in a stroke of a genius, something most artists wish to achieve.

Do you really need an answers to this?

Kojima is trying to convey a story using interactive media as his vehicle. You're basically admitting that he's refusing to use the best tools at his disposal to do so. Therefore, you're inadvertantly admitting that Kojima isn't a great storyteller and that superior methods could have been used to the tell the MGS saga.

Your posts are making less and less sense as this thread progresses.




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rocketpig said:

DTG said:

whom wha wha whom whom whom wha

Your posts are making less and less sense as this thread progresses.


That is clearly not possible.



@rocketpig + Sieanr

No matter how much evidence or arguments yourselves and others produce there are those that will never be convinced. To have a discussion like this the opposite opinion at least has to be willing to listen. If they are not you are just wasting your time.



  

rocketpig said:
DTG said:
rocketpig said:
Oh, cut-scene based games can tell a good story. That wasn't my point. My point that any cut-scene heavy game is avoiding the strengths of the medium and instead trying to turn it into a more familiar medium with more limitations, like movies.

 

Why must every aspect of a mans work embrace the "strength" of a medium? Do many books not contain pictures in them? Do many movies not contain written references in them? Wy should a game limit itself to a particular style when it can blend several together - namely movies and games? The gameplay is still there however the story is presented as a movie blending two mediums in a stroke of a genius, something most artists wish to achieve.

Do you really need an answers to this?

Kojima is trying to convey a story using interactive media as his vehicle. You're basically admitting that he's refusing to use the best tools at his disposal to do so. Therefore, you're inadvertantly admitting that Kojima isn't a great storyteller and that superior methods could have been used to the tell the MGS saga.

Your posts are making less and less sense as this thread progresses.

 

The fact is you yourself have inadvertently admitted that interactivity isn't the best method to Kojima's style as neither you nor anyone else has been capable of naming a single game that can present one hours worth of philosophical dialogue through subtle interactivity. Kojima is here to teach us and he can only do so through lectures like any teacher does.



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DTG said:
rocketpig said:
DTG said:
rocketpig said:
Oh, cut-scene based games can tell a good story. That wasn't my point. My point that any cut-scene heavy game is avoiding the strengths of the medium and instead trying to turn it into a more familiar medium with more limitations, like movies.

 

Why must every aspect of a mans work embrace the "strength" of a medium? Do many books not contain pictures in them? Do many movies not contain written references in them? Wy should a game limit itself to a particular style when it can blend several together - namely movies and games? The gameplay is still there however the story is presented as a movie blending two mediums in a stroke of a genius, something most artists wish to achieve.

Do you really need an answers to this?

Kojima is trying to convey a story using interactive media as his vehicle. You're basically admitting that he's refusing to use the best tools at his disposal to do so. Therefore, you're inadvertantly admitting that Kojima isn't a great storyteller and that superior methods could have been used to the tell the MGS saga.

Your posts are making less and less sense as this thread progresses.

 

The fact is you yourself have inadvertently admitted that interactivity isn't the best method to Kojima's style as neither you nor anyone else has been capable of naming a single game that can present one hours worth of philosophical dialogue through subtle interactivity. Kojima is here to teach us and he can only do so through lectures like any teacher does.

His point is it uses way too many cutscenes not that it uses cutscenes.

Take for example. Killer 7. You won't find a deeper philisopical game on the market...(outside of Philosphy Wars 2:The Reckoning) and most of the deeper stuff isn't found in the cutscenes.  Killer 7 deals with the futility of war, the culture war between east and west, themes of idenentity, political intrigue and a large host of other issues.

But if you want a game that doesn't use a game that puts philosophical dialogue in subtle interactivity. Try Fallout and Fallout 2. It's all right their in the fallout series.

How far is a man willing to go to save his people? Is he willing to abandon all morals and lie, cheat, steal and even slaughter strangers? What about Drug dealers and criminals? What about help people they know are bad just to be helped? Double cross people? etc.

Or more importantly... what would you do to save your loved ones.



Astrodust said:
My roommate beat this game in about 18 hours. He said he played for about 6 of those hours and the rest were all cutscenes. He's looking forward to New Game+ though.

 

So you're saying there are 12 hours of cut scenes?

 



I loved the series appreciate the tying everything up so to speak but it was over the top alla lord of the rings 3 endings! and very predictable in many cases.

Makes you wonder if Kojima thinks computers really control brain function there are those who do.

Still I doubt he does I liked the the second game best then the 1st 2nd and the 3rd well 3rd. and well the fourth, fourth. Still game play graphics story I would say there was way more story and cutscenes then game play and 20 hours seams to include the cutscenes imo.

Still as a huge fan and I say huge because I could stand to drop a few LBS.
It was a nice finish just over the top and I guess I wasnt hit with the awe factor of the previous games.

Maybe I'll play it agian in a few months when the hype wears down and see if I missed something and give it another try.



I have finished the game, and I have to agree with the OP. Some of the stupidest dialog ever. That, and I am not a fan of how he tells a story.

Still a great game, just a very long winded one.

Oh, and I did hate the last fight, how stupid was that.



Oh god can we please just let this thread die? DTG has yet to respond to any of my posts in any sense, and only responds to Rocketpig's with strawmen.

He obviously is just trolling us at this point, and isn't actually interested in having a critical debate over stylistic choices in storytelling.



Please, PLEASE do NOT feed the trolls.
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