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Forums - Sony - My altered view of MGS4 now that I've beaten it.

Shameless said:

MGS is the game equivalent of Japanese cartoons. Poor clichéd storyline with some semblance of morality and a huge rabid fanbase that watch everything to do with the subject.

Apparently, you don't know much about Japanese cartoons or so-called "Manga." 

For decades, it's been far more successful than Japanese game, anime, or movie in terms of storytelling.

You'd better do your homework before making a comment like that.



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I really dont understand why all the hate?

There are people that have never played this game (sameless, onimusha12) and are attacking it as if its some sort of threat to them.

Seriously stop arguing and enjoy the game, it was made for people to enjoy not to argue about it.



 

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rocketpig said:
alpha_dk said:
Shameless said:

MGS is the game equivalent of Japanese cartoons. Poor clichéd storyline with some semblance of morality and a huge rabid fanbase that watch everything to do with the subject.

Some of you people suprise me, though. From reading your posts I feel like I've fallen into one of those pretentious art forums and it's suprising that you enjoy this entertainment medium at all. Maybe you should go and read some Nietzche instead of complaining about a game that is so obviously below you.

I don't think games are below me. Halflife (and 2), for example, had an *excellent* story... you were given more than enough information by *doing* things to get excellent characterizations, a superb plot, as well as a decent (but not great) dialog on the limits of humanity through the use of background audio clips, television clips, and stuff like that; you don't need a character to flat out say,

"Are the combine and those ruled by them any more human than the zombies and headcrabs they oppose? Once human progression is given to the care of others to maintain, can we really be called human any more? If we deny ourselves the right of self-determination of our future, aren't we just the same as the Zombies and Headcrabs we profess to hate?"

All of that information is expressed extremely well in HL2, and other games do it as well or better than HL2. None of the ones I am thinking of resort to heavy-handed dialog to portray these themes.

Art, Philosophy and Video Games can go hand-in-hand; I don't believe that there is anything intrinsically better about heavy-handed cut-scene-ridden games than a game that forces you to expand the themes for itself; which, as I understand DTG's argument is what he's saying.

If I am wrong about his argument, than I apologize; but since he hasn't responded, I haven't gotten clarification on his beliefs.

On top of that, don't you think that kind of approach is defeating the potential of the media?

Video games are in their own class when it comes to media. It's not a stagnant format created by one person or a team... It's an interactive experience that can change depending on preference and experience.

Using lengthy cutscenes and long-winded exposition to tell a player something defeats the media. We may as well be watching a movie at that point. A not very good movie, at that.

Which is why I will stand by my opinion that games like Mass Effect use the media far better than MGS4 or any Final Fantasy game. BioWare actually takes the time to appreciate what the strengths of interactive media are and approach their games with that in mind instead of trying to fight the limitations and turn the media into something it isn't, namely a movie or philosophical text.

 

Well, in a way; I think that cut-scene based games *could* tell a good story; however, they would have to absorb the qualities of the media.  I hate to bring it up again, but imagine Halflife again.  They could easily have made a cutscene in which the portal opened to the other world.  Instead, they had you directly cause it, while all the exposition was people talking to you as you do whatever.  Not the best example of it from the series, but hey - whether or not you've played HL to the end, I feel the opening scene is one most gamers will know. 

Having long-winded exposition can be used effectively (Listen to any of Doctor Breen's speeches in HL2: they're as long-winded and exposition-y as you could ever want.  BUT, because you listen to them while playing the rest of the game, and you have other goals to accomplish beyond listening to the exposition).

I do agree that my personal favorite stories are the ones that tell themselves through gameplay; exposition can add a lot of backstory, though, which can further your knowledge of the medium and provide new insight into the story.  It can just be used so much more effectively than hour-long ramblings.

EDIT: I also fixed a typo in my previous post; I meant to write 'expand for yourself' not 'itself'  I am sorry if this caused confusion to anyone reading it.



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Oh, cut-scene based games can tell a good story. That wasn't my point. My point that any cut-scene heavy game is avoiding the strengths of the medium and instead trying to turn it into a more familiar medium with more limitations, like movies.




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rocketpig said:
Oh, cut-scene based games can tell a good story. That wasn't my point. My point that any cut-scene heavy game is avoiding the strengths of the medium and instead trying to turn it into a more familiar medium with more limitations, like movies.

 

Oh, in that case, very very true.



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I'm tired of this argument, so I'll just say:

If you want to see a game that CRUSHES Metal Gear Solid in story, storytelling, interactivity, complexity, depth and writing, go play Planescape: Torment (which uses almost no cutscenes).



shio said:

I'm tired of this argument, so I'll just say:

If you want to see a game that CRUSHES Metal Gear Solid in story, storytelling, interactivity, complexity, depth and writing, go play Planescape: Torment (which uses almost no cutscenes).

 

I saw you recommend that earlier as well; I've been looking for it (legally) and if I can't find it I will resort to other methods, but you definitely got at least one person to check it out



Please, PLEASE do NOT feed the trolls.
fksumot tag: "Sheik had to become a man to be useful. Or less useful. Might depend if you're bi."

--Predictions--
1) WiiFit will outsell the pokemans.
  Current Status: 2009.01.10 70k till PKMN Yellow (Passed: Emerald, Crystal, FR/LG)

if you haven't played the first three, you will be lost with the fourth game.



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leo-j said:
I really dont understand why all the hate?

There are people that have never played this game (sameless, onimusha12) and are attacking it as if its some sort of threat to them.

Seriously stop arguing and enjoy the game, it was made for people to enjoy not to argue about it.

 

 You are like one of the biggest haters of games you haven't played. Hyprocracy much?



 

 

shio said:

I'm tired of this argument, so I'll just say:

If you want to see a game that CRUSHES Metal Gear Solid in story, storytelling, interactivity, complexity, depth and writing, go play Planescape: Torment (which uses almost no cutscenes).

 

Planescape was good but not amazing. MGS games have far more in depth and lengthy philosophical exposition than Torment did. The 8 circles of Zerthimon and ending dialogue were thought provoking but besides that there wasn't enough discussion on the subjects the game wished to adress.