My altered view of MGS4 now that I've beaten it.

[alpha_dk]

rocketpig said:

alpha_dk said:

Shameless said:

MGS is the game equivalent of Japanese cartoons. Poor clichéd storyline with some semblance of morality and a huge rabid fanbase that watch everything to do with the subject.

Some of you people suprise me, though. From reading your posts I feel like I've fallen into one of those pretentious art forums and it's suprising that you enjoy this entertainment medium at all. Maybe you should go and read some Nietzche instead of complaining about a game that is so obviously below you.

I don't think games are below me. Halflife (and 2), for example, had an *excellent* story... you were given more than enough information by *doing* things to get excellent characterizations, a superb plot, as well as a decent (but not great) dialog on the limits of humanity through the use of background audio clips, television clips, and stuff like that; you don't need a character to flat out say,

"Are the combine and those ruled by them any more human than the zombies and headcrabs they oppose? Once human progression is given to the care of others to maintain, can we really be called human any more? If we deny ourselves the right of self-determination of our future, aren't we just the same as the Zombies and Headcrabs we profess to hate?"

All of that information is expressed extremely well in HL2, and other games do it as well or better than HL2. None of the ones I am thinking of resort to heavy-handed dialog to portray these themes.

Art, Philosophy and Video Games can go hand-in-hand; I don't believe that there is anything intrinsically better about heavy-handed cut-scene-ridden games than a game that forces you to expand the themes for itself; which, as I understand DTG's argument is what he's saying.

If I am wrong about his argument, than I apologize; but since he hasn't responded, I haven't gotten clarification on his beliefs.

On top of that, don't you think that kind of approach is defeating the potential of the media?

Video games are in their own class when it comes to media. It's not a stagnant format created by one person or a team... It's an interactive experience that can change depending on preference and experience.

Using lengthy cutscenes and long-winded exposition to tell a player something defeats the media. We may as well be watching a movie at that point. A not very good movie, at that.

Which is why I will stand by my opinion that games like Mass Effect use the media far better than MGS4 or any Final Fantasy game. BioWare actually takes the time to appreciate what the strengths of interactive media are and approach their games with that in mind instead of trying to fight the limitations and turn the media into something it isn't, namely a movie or philosophical text.

 

Well, in a way; I think that cut-scene based games *could* tell a good story; however, they would have to absorb the qualities of the media.  I hate to bring it up again, but imagine Halflife again.  They could easily have made a cutscene in which the portal opened to the other world.  Instead, they had you directly cause it, while all the exposition was people talking to you as you do whatever.  Not the best example of it from the series, but hey - whether or not you've played HL to the end, I feel the opening scene is one most gamers will know. 

Having long-winded exposition can be used effectively (Listen to any of Doctor Breen's speeches in HL2: they're as long-winded and exposition-y as you could ever want.  BUT, because you listen to them while playing the rest of the game, and you have other goals to accomplish beyond listening to the exposition).

I do agree that my personal favorite stories are the ones that tell themselves through gameplay; exposition can add a lot of backstory, though, which can further your knowledge of the medium and provide new insight into the story.  It can just be used so much more effectively than hour-long ramblings.

EDIT: I also fixed a typo in my previous post; I meant to write 'expand for yourself' not 'itself'  I am sorry if this caused confusion to anyone reading it.