@fkusumot: I suppose that's about 0.1% of MikeB's ravings about the Cell?

 

NJ5 said: @fkusumot: I suppose that's about 0.1% of MikeB's ravings about the Cell?

I'm not really sure.

Honestly I doubt it, although its possible that they will move much more of the advanced shader arithmetic into the Cell. But for all the basic things like vertex transformation, texturing, etc. pp. no general purpose CPU will ever compare to a traditional GPU like NVIDIA or ATI provide.

Unless they switch to something completely different like Raytracing which for example Intels larraby? tries to incorporate.

Kyros said: I think the PS3 paves the way for a Cell based PS4 Honestly I doubt it, although its possible that they will move much more of the advanced shader arithmetic into the Cell. But for all the basic things like vertex transformation, texturing, etc. pp. no general purpose CPU will ever compare to a traditional GPU like NVIDIA or ATI provide. Unless they switch to something completely different like Raytracing which for example Intels larraby? tries to incorporate.

I can almost guarantee that if the PS4 is based on a Cell like architecture, it will have a higher number of PPEs than PS3's Cell (which was Sony's original plan anyway, except cost problems prevented it). They won't do the same mistake again.

That would make it easy to develop games for it, while still allowing for the advantages provided by the number crunching SPEs.

 

fkusumot said: NJ5 said: @fkusumot: I suppose that's about 0.1% of MikeB's ravings about the Cell?   I'm not really sure.

 

Is more like the 10%, he likes post the same thing across forums...

Of course the PS4 will have a enhanced Cell CPU, I thought fkusumot said that the PS4 will only have the CELL and no GPU (which was according to rumours a Sony idea for the PS3 but was scrapped) but perhaps I misunderstood him. Because the PS4 will also have a GPU and a Cell successor (most likely)



To be honest I doubt it. This would make programming even harder. At the moment you have one coordinator PPE and for everthing that takes longer you use a SPE. And when the PS4 comes out developer will know this programming approach like the back of their hand. Why should they make a hybrid classic multicore with additional SPEs? Multicore times two? I would rather think that they make the SPEs a bit more flexible.

But in the end SONY isn't alone in this at all . IBM makes the CELL and its successors and the question is how much both interested parties compromise.

Kyros said: I can almost guarantee that if the PS4 is based on a Cell like architecture Of course the PS4 will have a enhanced Cell CPU, I thought fkusumot said that the PS4 will only have the CELL and no GPU (which was according to rumours a Sony idea for the PS3 but was scrapped) but perhaps I misunderstood him. Because the PS4 will also have a GPU and a Cell successor (most likely) it will have a higher number of PPEs than PS3's Cell (which was Sony's original plan anyway, except cost problems prevented it). They won't do the same mistake again. To be honest I doubt it. This would make programming even harder. At the moment you have one coordinator PPE and for everthing that takes longer you use a SPE. And when the PS4 comes out developer will know this programming approach like the back of their hand. Why should they make a hybrid classic multicore with additional SPEs? Multicore times two? I would rather think that they make the SPEs a bit more flexible. But in the end SONY isn't alone in this at all . IBM makes the CELL and its successors and the question is how much both interested parties compromise.

 

The reason for more PPEs is that they're much easier to use for (and perform better with) generic algorithms. 2 or 3 PPEs would make it essentially as easy to program as the 360, while leaving the SPEs free for the number crunching parts which are truly suited for them. It's not just about knowing the Cell like the back of your hand, it's about fundamental differences, convenience and above all performance.

I think there's a lot of confusion about the Cell. The SPEs are middle of the road between normal cores and GPU units, which makes them great for number crunching at a performance gain vs traditional cores, while still allowing for generic computations with a performance hit vs traditional cores. Games use a mix of generic computations (with lots of logic and control code) and number crunching, they're not your average scientific application like FAH which does great on the Cell. At the project I'm working at now, we use an architecture similar to the Cell since we have to do a lot of number crunching, but I can see where game developers would have problems.

I better stop though, before MikeB gets here and starts making people cry.

 

HappySqurriel said: slimeattack said: If you want to see the difference between console and PC graphics, you need to have a good processor and a good graphics card. The latter costs equally much as a console.   I don't know about anywhere else, but in Canada you can pick up a mid-line Graphics Card (Geforce 8800GT) for about $150 (as low as $100 on sale), and a pretty good processor for about $150 (once again as low as $100 on sale), which enable you to play most new games at medium quality at a decent resolution ... certainly, it is not a complete system but people overestimate how expensive it is to produce a more powerful PC than the PS3.

 

Where are you finding at 8800Gt for 100-150.  I check out BestBuy and Future Shop each week and the 8800Gt 512mb has never gone below $200.  The flyers stlll have a 7600 card listed at $130.

Griffin said: HappySqurriel said: slimeattack said: If you want to see the difference between console and PC graphics, you need to have a good processor and a good graphics card. The latter costs equally much as a console.   I don't know about anywhere else, but in Canada you can pick up a mid-line Graphics Card (Geforce 8800GT) for about $150 (as low as $100 on sale), and a pretty good processor for about $150 (once again as low as $100 on sale), which enable you to play most new games at medium quality at a decent resolution ... certainly, it is not a complete system but people overestimate how expensive it is to produce a more powerful PC than the PS3.   Where are you finding at 8800Gt for 100-150. I check out BestBuy and Future Shop each week and the 8800Gt 512mb has never gone below $200. The flyers stlll have a 7600 card listed at $130.

I'm not from USA, but every time I see Americans discussing PC purchases they almost only buy stuff at newegg. The best prices are probably there most of the time. Does it work for Canadians?

 

Griffin said: HappySqurriel said: slimeattack said: If you want to see the difference between console and PC graphics, you need to have a good processor and a good graphics card. The latter costs equally much as a console.   I don't know about anywhere else, but in Canada you can pick up a mid-line Graphics Card (Geforce 8800GT) for about $150 (as low as $100 on sale), and a pretty good processor for about $150 (once again as low as $100 on sale), which enable you to play most new games at medium quality at a decent resolution ... certainly, it is not a complete system but people overestimate how expensive it is to produce a more powerful PC than the PS3.   Where are you finding at 8800Gt for 100-150.  I check out BestBuy and Future Shop each week and the 8800Gt 512mb has never gone below $200.  The flyers stlll have a 7600 card listed at $130.

 

 http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=30789&promoid=1074

Edit: if you're pricing computer hardware at futureshop or bestbuy could you please pay me their prices and I'll get you the hardware ... I could really use the 25% to 50% markup over decent retailers!