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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Myth of Metal Gear Solid 4 being too much for xbox 360 to handle...

leo-j on 16 June 2008

You guys havent played nor seen MGS4 on the PS3, it looks better than UNCHARTED, I dont believe the 360 can handle it.

Especially not at 60fps.

Also it uses all of the 50GB DISC, which is why there is a 4GB INSTALL needed, for the game to run at its max.

There are also several things that kojima himself put in the game, that make it seem its IMPOSSIBLE for the XBOX 360 to get this game even if it can run on that hardware.



 

mM
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Diomedes1976 on 16 June 2008

Some of people seem to think that with saying "the X36o could " or " the X360 would " everythings is OK.

But the cold ,hard truth is that the best looking PS3 games are above what the 360 has showed.Games as MGSIV ,Uncharted ,Gran Turismo 5 Prologue or even Ratchet and Clank and Heavenly Sword are above anything of the 360 in those genres.IF the X360 can do things like that it better show it ,words arent enough.



Pristine20 on 16 June 2008

Despite my quotes, I think the 360 can run a port of mgs4 even though it would have multiple discs and be of poorer quality. The real reason this won't happen is Kojima is to Sony as Itagaki is to M$ (they are fanboys like most of the people on this site).

Its funny remembering Itagaki lambasting NG:Sigma when it is better than his original NG. He probably left tecmo for bringing NG to the PS lol.

Also, I think Kojima purposely made a bad port of mgs2 on the original xbox when it is obviously more powerful than the ps2 because konami made him do it which probably was against his wishes. No game should have looked worse on the original xbox compared to the ps2



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

akuma587 on 16 June 2008
reask said:
funny a mate of mine downloaded the demo of mgs4 and said he wasnt impressed.
now he says he is waiting for battlefield bad company to come out.
he thought that was more his thing.
I suppose it comes down to personal taste.

 

Funny, there is not a demo of MGS4 posted anywhere.  Great to catch people when they are flat-out lying.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Pristine20 on 16 June 2008
akuma587 said:
reask said:
funny a mate of mine downloaded the demo of mgs4 and said he wasnt impressed.
now he says he is waiting for battlefield bad company to come out.
he thought that was more his thing.
I suppose it comes down to personal taste.

 

Funny, there is not a demo of MGS4 posted anywhere. Great to catch people when they are flat-out lying.

Thats funny indeed but i thought he was referring to the beta but now I think about it, you had to preorder the game to gain access to the beta. If he wasn't interested in the game, could he possibly have played the online beta?

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

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akuma587 on 16 June 2008
Pristine20 said:
akuma587 said:
reask said:
funny a mate of mine downloaded the demo of mgs4 and said he wasnt impressed.
now he says he is waiting for battlefield bad company to come out.
he thought that was more his thing.
I suppose it comes down to personal taste.

 

Funny, there is not a demo of MGS4 posted anywhere. Great to catch people when they are flat-out lying.

Thats funny indeed but i thought he was referring to the beta but now I think about it, you had to preorder the game to gain access to the beta. If he wasn't interested in the game, could he possibly have played the online beta?

 

Even if he was, the Beta is nothing like the real game. You honestly can't even compare the two unless you count playing as Snake in the sneaking mission playing the real game.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Pristine20 on 16 June 2008
akuma587 said:
Pristine20 said:
akuma587 said:
reask said:
funny a mate of mine downloaded the demo of mgs4 and said he wasnt impressed.
now he says he is waiting for battlefield bad company to come out.
he thought that was more his thing.
I suppose it comes down to personal taste.

 

Funny, there is not a demo of MGS4 posted anywhere. Great to catch people when they are flat-out lying.

Thats funny indeed but i thought he was referring to the beta but now I think about it, you had to preorder the game to gain access to the beta. If he wasn't interested in the game, could he possibly have played the online beta?

 

Even if he was, the Beta is nothing like the real game. You honestly can't even compare the two unless you count playing as Snake in the sneaking mission playing the real game.

 

makes sense. the 2 are definitely incomparable!

 



"Dr. Tenma, according to you, lives are equal. That's why I live today. But you must have realised it by now...the only thing people are equal in is death"---Johann Liebert (MONSTER)

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.

It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives"---Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

leo-j on 16 June 2008

When I say something look this good on the XBOX360 running at 60fps at full 720p, I will say its possible to port it:

Even with the pic below, it wont come to the XBOX 360 for several reasons for which those that have played the game (QUOTE FOR FULL SIZE)would know



 

mM
windbane on 16 June 2008
starcraft said:
windbane said:

It's been widely reported to be a near-filled 50GB disc, so I won't even talk further on that topic except to remind people that the Japanese voices were to be included but were not because of space issues. I would have enjoyed that.

Now, my main point...

It should be a bannable offense at this point for you to make these comments about read/seek times. I'm pretty sure I have corrected you in several threads before and so have other people. Let's get the truth out there once again...

single layer dvd on 360 (12x read speeds) is only faster than blu-ray at a certain part of the disc. Things that need to be loaded faster go there. The blu-ray drive on the PS3 is faster, uniformly, than DL-DVDs on 360.

Installs to hard drive are, of course, even faster. There is no need for redundancy, and it certainly wouldn't take tripling or quadrupling of the data. I understand that Bethesda said they did that, but that is not the only reason load times were twice as fast on the PS3 for Oblivion. Even if redundacy is used, isn't that a great reason to have all of that space? Blu-ray is already faster than the 360 DL discs, so having more space just adds to the advantage.

The Blu-Ray specification states 1x speed is equal to 36Mbps, which makes 2x Blu-ray 72Mbps. http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_speed


The dvd specification states 1x speed approx 10.5Mbps, or126 Mbps for a 12x DVD drive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvd

Now as you pointed out previously, the Blu-Ray speed is constant wheras the DVD9 speed fluctuates. But you should understand that talented devs can and will place all high-priority data in the fastest parts of the disk. So commonly used textures that have to be doubled or tripled up on a Blu-Ray disk when 72Mbps is insufficient can be put on a DVD9 just once if they are placed on a part of the disk that reads at 7-12x, depending on what speed is needed.

As for seek times, 12x DVD drive seem to be in the 100ms-120ms range, while 2x Blu Ray is around 350ms. I'll try to find a link for that some time soon. But as you can see, the DVD is substantially faster. If faster Blu-Ray drives were available when the PS3 was designed, this would be a moot argument, but they weren't, so it isn't.

Whilst you are technically correct in pointing out the Blu-Ray drive is just barely faster "uniformly" (by which I assume you mean on average) than the DVD9, this is blatantly deceptive because no dev worth their salt will put important data that needs to be regularly retrieved on the slow part of a disk.

We have seen time and time again that most installs are not optional, they are necessary, because the Blu-Ray drive places a severe limitation on the Cell (and perhaps the RSX, though it isn't that powerful) without a compulsory install for regurly retreived data. To deal with the lower seek time, devs have to duplicate data on the Blu-Ray disk. In this regard, the Blu-Ray drive both creates and solves its own problem, but it does so whilst adding a substantial cost to the system.

 

 

Sorry for the delay and I'll check to see if others responded to this...but what you say about certain parts of the DVD being read faster is true, and I said that.  But as I've said, the DL-DVD read speed is slower; even the fastest parts are slower than the uniform blu-ray speed.

And again, installing to hard drive is faster than all options.  The blu-ray disc speed is not a problem for developers, or at least it shouldn't be.



Squilliam on 16 June 2008

The game runs at 30fps except in cutscenes (60) which means they are probably prerendered anyway, for the most part. Theres probably a mix of pre rendered and ingame footage in a lot of the cutscenes. Dunno, should find out today when I play it.

Does this thread = inferiority complex for PS3 owners? They have to prove that the greater $$$ they paid translates into better performance. Because, you know - greater cost of the machine ~$800 and one year after the Xbox360 launch should translate into better performance right?!?!!?

In any case this thread is actually as much a testament to the brilliance of Microsofts design in creating a console with older technology that actually performs better than or on par with a system that was released a little over one year later with "better" technology.



Tease.