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Forums - Sony Discussion - Top 10 Reasons To Keep the PS3 Dream Alive

Gballzack on 10 June 2007
IllegalPaladin said:

Gballzack, I don't fully agree with some of your points.  

 -Of course, but that's the developers job. However, I don't believe Nintendo when they say that with power, all your games will suck. Again, it's the developers job to harness that power. Think Valve's Source engine and Epic's Unreal engine, as time goes on, more additions and fixes improve on that powerful software. 

So in otherwords a console such as the Atari Jaguar didn't fail, it was the Developers who failed? It had nothing to do with the fact that the Jaguar was infamously difficult to develop for, it was the Developers who were to blame... Listen, the PS3 is a nightmare to develop for and has been compared to one of the levels of Hell by some developers. And while it is indeed the Developer's job to adapt to new fronteers, it doesn't help when Sony throws a couple hundred extra hurdles in their way in the form of exceedingly complicated new technologies. Even those who praise the PS3 admit its one too many generations ahead of its time for there to be anything in the way of an easy or approachable learning curve for developers. You can blame the developers all you want but its Sony whose geting shafted for their own ambition and lack of consideration for the progression of developers from one generation to the next (or in this case, the one after).

- Okay, fault Sony for not 100% BC since they did use that as a pro of getting a PS3, but at least it's there and it's being updated. Unless I'm mistaken, the 360 requires updates for more titles to work as well. While I'm not going to fault that (unless there is a game that I loved that wont work), I can't understand how expanding that list is a bad thing. For the controllers, correct me if I'm wrong, but do the Xbox controllers and memory card units work on the 360 (cause I have no idea)? It's not as bad as you think for the PS3, I recently bought the memory card and Pelican PS2 adaptor and they work nicely (the PS2 adapter works on my PC too since it emulates the Sixaxis and I have the driver for the Sixaxis). Oh, and the PS2 adapter saves me $50 too (though no motion control) till a rumble controller comes out since Sony and Immursion have made up. Not only that, the memory card adaptor was finially worth getting after the 1.8 update because now I can save my data back onto the PS1/2 memory cards to take to friend's houses. Speaking of USB ports, there are 4 ports on the front, that's pretty convienent if you want to compare the console to a computer since I have to get behind my desk to get to my USB ports for anything bigger than a USB storage device or controller (long term usage that is). 

I'm not comparing it to the 360 though as if the 360 was the better of the two. I think the 360 is the most pathetic excuse of a console when it comes to reverse compatibility. The point still stands though that the Ps3 still isn't 100% reverse compatbile and the fact it needs upgrades to do what it should of done out of the box is just insult to injury. If the Wii could do it right, why couldn't they? The UK PS3 isn't even reverse compatible at all. USB ports are nice and convenient but it doesn't change the fact they failed to put ports for the PS1/PS2 peripherals on such a hulking beast when Nintendo was able to manage it with the tiny Wii.

Are you seriously telling me the PS3 doesn't even have a rumble capable controller right now?

-Well I recall Xbox 360 loyal starting to say that the PS3 can't rely on MGS4 and FFXIII alone when somebody would mention those two games. So why is that bad that people are looking foward to more than just those two games?

Because those two games were once the two main driving points of the "Sony is worth getting" argument, and for them to be just dropped over night like they never existed as a selling point is just a tad suspicious the second somewhat tangible evidence arises that one of those two titles doesn't have a secure future as PS3 exclusive. We've only been listening to people brag about MGS4 and FFXIII for six months now, don't act like something better came along and no one cares about them anymore, Gran Turismo 5 wasn't exactly a secret this whole time. Don't try and play innocent here, you know as well as I do this is a case of the Sony fans losing the nerve to brag about any title that isn't a Sony 1st or 2nd party exclusive anymore. And while there is no solid proof either MGS4 or FFXIII won't stay PS3 exclusives, Sony fans have seen enough exclusives lost to know better.

-But then that bodes the question, $500 for just a blu-ray player or $600 (hopefully soon to be less) for a blu-ray player and a media machine. 

The fact of the matter is, the PS3 is as it stands now the best deal it will ever be as a Blu-Ray player. Blu-Ray players will drop in price much faster than the PS3 can and even with a price cut the PS3 will only delay the end of its appeal as a cheap Blu-Ray player.

 


 



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shams on 10 June 2007
URNotE said:
...
  • 10. You simply have to give it some more time.
  • 09. You cannot deny the power of the cell processor. I predict we will start seeing a great difference between PS3 performance and Xbox 360 performance as the next generation gets into full swing.
  • 08. Backward compatibility with the PS2 collection (one of the best console collections in history I might add).
  • 07. The price will eventually drop. I can’t say when, but it’s unavoidable.
  • 06. Can anyone say “Gran Turismo 5’?
  • 05. The PS3 is embracing the future of Bluetooth technology.
  • 04. PlayStation Home
  • 03. If Blu-Ray wins the next generation movie battle, the PS3 makes for a cheap Blu-Ray player
  • 02. Unchartered: Drake’s Fortune. This could be the big hit they are waiting for.
  • 01. Can anyone say “Gran Turismo 5’?

Firstly, and most importantly...

There are SO MANY games out these days, there is no NEED for anyone to own more than one console. Any of the big 3 will have so many GOOD games released, it should keep anyone going indefinitely. This is the primary reason I haven't invested in a 360 - and I can see things getting worse.

Sure - I'll miss out on playing so many GREAT games - but I already have! And guess what? I just don't care anymore - too many games PERIOD.

Here is a short list of games I have NEVER played (may have watched someone play in parts): Doom3, HalfLife2, Halo 1/2, PGR, Ninja Gaiden, KOTOR 1/2, Fable, God of War, Deus Ex (any), Thief (any), any MMORPG, Diablo 2 , FF8/9/X-2/11/12, MGS 2/3, Dragon Quest (any) (and the list goes on...). 

Now, with this in mind:

10. Whatever

9. Don't care. I couldn't give a rats a*** about the tech that a console uses. I want to see the results, and enjoy the games. If I was a tech-head, I would ALWAYS stick to PCs only.

8. I already own a PS2.

7. Price is just another deterrent - not the only one. The price would have to drop 80% for me to consider one at the moment.

6. Not into racing games. Enjoyed GT3 (briefly), and didn't like GT4 at all. Too many racers out anyway these days.

5. Huh? My PC, Wii & mobile all support Bluetooth you know? Its not something to get "excited" about?

4. <yawn> I'll prefer to do my online matchmaking through a GUI, rather than a virtual world. And if I wanted to wander around in a virtual world, I would use Second Life or something else. Not a reason to purchase a PS3 - something to kill the time, if you already own one.

3.  Don't own a Full-HD TV set. Don't buy cheap DVDs, let alone expensive hidef DVDs. This isn't a reason at all for me, and I definitely would never buy a PS3 as a BluRay player - I would juts buy a standalone player (now cheaper than a PS3, and they SHOULD be!).

2. Although the game interests me, its probably ranked around #30 on my "would buy, if it was out now" list. Assuming I had a PS3, which I don't. Not worth $1100(+) to play.

1. See #6.

....

I hope there ends up being some more compelling reasons to buy a PS3 in the future than this. I would start with the list of upcoming games...

 



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Celb on 10 June 2007

lol the wii fans are counter arguing it already.



IllegalPaladin on 10 June 2007

So in otherwords a console such as the Atari Jaguar didn't fail, it was the Developers who failed? It had nothing to do with the fact that the Jaguar was infamously difficult to develop for, it was the Developers who were to blame... Listen, the PS3 is a nightmare to develop for and has been compared to one of the levels of Hell by some developers. And while it is indeed the Developer's job to adapt to new fronteers, it doesn't help when Sony throws a couple hundred extra hurdles in their way in the form of exceedingly complicated new technologies. Even those who praise the PS3 admit its one too many generations ahead of its time for there to be anything in the way of an easy or approachable learning curve for developers. You can blame the developers all you want but its Sony whose geting shafted for their own ambition and lack of consideration for the progression of developers from one generation to the next (or in this case, the one after).

I was pairing the PS3 and 360 when it came to Nintendo's argument of 'quality vs graphics'. However, as I was saying with the Source and Unreal Engine, Sony has also developed tools for programming, I believe it's called Edge. While it's no doubt be hell to learn how to program on the PS3 especially for smaller development teams, getting help from things such as Edge can help out a bit as well.

I'm not comparing it to the 360 though as if the 360 was the better of the two. I think the 360 is the most pathetic excuse of a console when it comes to reverse compatibility. The point still stands though that the Ps3 still isn't 100% reverse compatbile and the fact it needs upgrades to do what it should of done out of the box is just insult to injury. If the Wii could do it right, why couldn't they? The UK PS3 isn't even reverse compatible at all. USB ports are nice and convenient but it doesn't change the fact they failed to put ports for the PS1/PS2 peripherals on such a hulking beast when Nintendo was able to manage it with the tiny Wii.

Are you seriously telling me the PS3 doesn't even have a rumble capable controller right now?

First, whre are they going to put these ports? Maybe it could have worked where the memory card readers are, but there isn't much space other than that. The PS3 or the 360 wouldn't really have a good spot for extra ports such as that. On the top would look akward and break the look of the console, the left side wouldn't work because it is also used for standing the console in a vertical position, I just talked about the front of the PS3 (though I don't know all of the 360's ports), and the right side is for blowing out the air. Speaking of design, the Wii is much better suited for those extra ports, can you really imagine if the entire top of the PS3 could flip up to reveal PS1/2 peripherals? Imagine how many more grill jokes there would be then.

As for the controller, are you just being sarcastic? Still, I believe a firmware update adds rumble if you can hook up your PS2 controllers, but I haven't been able to confirm that yet, though I can confirm the Pelican adaptor is pretty nice in my day or two with it.

Because those two games were once the two main driving points of the "Sony is worth getting" argument, and for them to be just dropped over night like they never existed as a selling point is just a tad suspicious the second somewhat tangible evidence arises that one of those two titles doesn't have a secure future as PS3 exclusive. We've only been listening to people brag about MGS4 and FFXIII for six months now, don't act like something better came along and no one cares about them anymore, Gran Turismo 5 exactly a secret this whole time. Don't try and play innocent here, you know as well as I do this is a case of the Sony fans losing the nerve to brag about any title that isn't a Sony 1st or 2nd party exclusive anymore. And while there is no solid proof either MGS4 or FFXIII won't stay PS3 exclusives, Sony fans have seen enough exclusives lost to know better.

-I never said that something better came along so people forgot about them, but I did say that due to people saying that's all the PS3 had (before the non-exclusive rumors starting going around), the other games started to gain more interest in debate topics because that is what I've experienced while reading around. Not to mention that the game scene has improved some from Sony's Gamer's Day event since it is in a game drought right now. In the end, games will still appear on the PS3 even if they're not exclusive, so I wouldn't bother trying to peg me as a diehard who is going to try and rub crap in other's faces, I heard enough of crap smearing back when people I knew were praising how much better Halo 2 was over Half-Life 2 when they hadn't even played Half-Life 2. I also really enjoy the Metal Gear Solid games so please don't even go there with me, though others I'm unsure about. Kind of like people who don't care that much about the MGS games that only want it to go multi-platform just because it'd hurt Sony more.

The fact of the matter is, the PS3 is as it stands now the best deal it will ever be as a Blu-Ray player. Blu-Ray players will drop in price much faster than the PS3 can and even with a price cut the PS3 will only delay the end of its appeal as a cheap Blu-Ray player.

There is more to it than just that, mainly pertaining to the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray war. While I'm not totally happy with paying more for the blu-ray, I do appreciate the added value more since our old SDTV died and we decided to pick up a 1080p TV in its stead (to hopefully last us quite a while, the old TV lasted for around 10 years). Maybe others want to just play games, but if I'm spending hundreds on a PS3 (or if I bought a Premium or Elite 360 for that matter), I think it better do more than just play games since I'm spending about as much as a low end computer (and I play more PC games than anything right now). Because of which, I see so much more value than just games.



ckmlb on 11 June 2007

So why is there a thread about keeping the PS3 dream alive?

Second, why are people who obviously not interested in the PS3 posting about the fact that they aren't?

What's the point of either of those things? The PS3 is gonna be fine, even if it's not the top selling system...



Thanks to Blacksaber for the sig!

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cdude1034 on 11 June 2007
Celb said:
lol the wii fans are counter arguing it already.
  

 Would you rather have a forum where everyone agrees?

 No. Nintendo, Sony, and MS fans alike come here to argue their points about their consoles superiority. People are allowed to disagree.



 

Currently playing: Civ 6

Gballzack on 11 June 2007
IllegalPaladin said:

I was pairing the PS3 and 360 when it came to Nintendo's argument of 'quality vs graphics'. However, as I was saying with the Source and Unreal Engine, Sony has also developed tools for programming, I believe it's called Edge. While it's no doubt be hell to learn how to program on the PS3 especially for smaller development teams, getting help from things such as Edge can help out a bit as well.

And in what context does this apply to the original point you were contesting? You're dodging the well known fact that the PS3 has been criticized for being too difficult to develp for by supplementing your own optimism as a fact. "Edge?", call it Edge all you want but it certainly hasn't given Sony the edge in any regards of success, the one thing that matters. And how does "Edge" help you when it limits potential developers for your console and potential console sales? Sure Sony has developed tools for programming but that still doesn't make the PS3 any easier to develop for. Don't try and sugar coat this like Sony is doing what has been done all along or that they're pioneering new fronteirs. Those are all just excuses after the fact for why the console isn't doing well.

First, whre are they going to put these ports? Maybe it could have worked where the memory card readers are, but there isn't much space other than that. The PS3 or the 360 wouldn't really have a good spot for extra ports such as that. On the top would look akward and break the look of the console, the left side wouldn't work because it is also used for standing the console in a vertical position, I just talked about the front of the PS3 (though I don't know all of the 360's ports), and the right side is for blowing out the air. Speaking of design, the Wii is much better suited for those extra ports, can you really imagine if the entire top of the PS3 could flip up to reveal PS1/2 peripherals? Imagine how many more grill jokes there would be then.

So your primary concern is grill jokes? Instead of looking for possible places to add ports now, how about suggesting they had designed the console differently to accomodate these from the start? The Wii is a tiny ass console that somehow managed to find a space for its ports, but the PS3 couldn't even manage that? Don't try and dodge this failure of R&D ergonomics.

As for the controller, are you just being sarcastic? Still, I believe a firmware update adds rumble if you can hook up your PS2 controllers, but I haven't been able to confirm that yet, though I can confirm the Pelican adaptor is pretty nice in my day or two with it.

dear god that's pathetic...

-I never said that something better came along so people forgot about them, but I did say that due to people saying that's all the PS3 had (before the non-exclusive rumors starting going around), the other games started to gain more interest in debate topics because that is what I've experienced while reading around. Not to mention that the game scene has improved some from Sony's Gamer's Day event since it is in a game drought right now. In the end, games will still appear on the PS3 even if they're not exclusive, so I wouldn't bother trying to peg me as a diehard who is going to try and rub crap in other's faces, I heard enough of crap smearing back when people I knew were praising how much better Halo 2 was over Half-Life 2 when they hadn't even played Half-Life 2. I also really enjoy the Metal Gear Solid games so please don't even go there with me, though others I'm unsure about. Kind of like people who don't care that much about the MGS games that only want it to go multi-platform just because it'd hurt Sony more.

Again, you dodge the main point. This trend of abandoning MGS4 and FFXIII as mascot games didn't happen after gamers day, it happened after screen shots showed the Playstation 3 logo taken out of the MGS4 credits screen. And Gran Turismo 5, which has replaced them as a bragging game was never a secret from the start. I also never implied or tried to "peg" you as anything so I'd appreciate you drop the victim complex here. Restating the obvious about fans and their games and what games you like doesn't excuse the suspision of this sudden drop of MGS4 and FFXIII as mascot games. You can dismiss the weight of that all you want but I never claimed this as anything more than a point of personal amusement to begin with, so please keep that in mind.

There is more to it than just that, mainly pertaining to the HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray war. While I'm not totally happy with paying more for the blu-ray, I do appreciate the added value more since our old SDTV died and we decided to pick up a 1080p TV in its stead (to hopefully last us quite a while, the old TV lasted for around 10 years). Maybe others want to just play games, but if I'm spending hundreds on a PS3 (or if I bought a Premium or Elite 360 for that matter), I think it better do more than just play games since I'm spending about as much as a low end computer (and I play more PC games than anything right now). Because of which, I see so much more value than just games.

..... Back to the original point....

The PS3 is at this moment the most appealing it will ever be as a Blu-Ray player. Over time as Blu-Ray player prices drop it will look more and more like an expensive Blu-Ray player even with PS3 price drops. This was brought up originally to contend the claim that the PS3 would forever be appealing as an affordable alternative to a Blu-Ray player, which I quite adequately proved incorrect. And now you're trying to counter my claim with anecdotal yarns of your own personal beliefs and experiences?


 



Fractal of Time on 11 June 2007

1. Free online play or buy an extra game each year for not paying LIVE.
2. Online Community a hang out for clans or just some casual gamers
3. Customize your games (LBP, UT3, Singstar)
4. Blu-ray (buildin) addon = more room more wires
5. Motion and Rumble
6. Standard HDD faster loading Copy to HDD
7. Internet When someone else uses the PC.
8. Lots of CGI movies instead of engine-based movies.
9. Exclusive console games NOT also on PC games.
10. Cardreader (buildin) addon = more room more wires
11. Standalone Media Center. Not Windows Media Center Streamer extention.
12. Eyetoy = Webcam + More.
13. High Quality PSN games NOT arcade games only
14. Linux
15. Upgrade your HDD How much GB do you want?
16. PS3 isn't noisy
17. No charge kits needed
18. Wifi
19. Where shall I place this huge adaptor
20. PS1, PS2 although no emotionchip anymore.


You can wander if you use all of these features. How many features has your mobile phone? How many do you use? They might become handy in the future or they might not.



Apollo on 11 June 2007
Fuzzmosis said:
Just for fun:

#10: We need to keep it alive because... we need to keep it alive. Ran out of reasons?

#9: Shrug, folding showed it can be used for good. Up to developers to show how it can be used for gaming.

#8: Yeah, cept for horrible scaling and not allowing some of their more popular and still amazingly well selling games to work on it. When the marketing cry is "Buy a new 600 dollar system that will play your old games worse and without rumble" fire a lot of people.

#7: See number 10.

#6: Yep. A 14 million selling game in history ain't bad.

#5: So.... like everything else? A claim to wait is that it's adopting not first, but about at the same rate?

#4: Second Life without furries sounds... well, still as bad as second life. Though it's popular. New, fake life without keyboard!

#3: Already cheaper Players out there.

#2: If it outsells Gran Turismo, certainly, but untested, and even damn great games don't always sell well. Which is a shame, but people buy what they buy.

#1: Once more, ran out of reasons?

  it doesn't matter how much power the PS3 has, if Sony keeps refusing to help developers, they will struggle. remember the Jaggies on the PS2? the developers had to sort that out because Sony couldn't be bothered. it up to developers to show how it can be used for gaming. not Sony! and thats not good.

 



IllegalPaladin on 11 June 2007

Yes, being hard to develop for is definitely a problem as seen through inferior ports. Not to mention at least one developer (Julian Eggebreeht, head of Factor 5) has said that because of said difficulty, he thinks multiplatform games would be better for developers if they made the PS3 version first and then took it to the 360. Like with PS1/PS2 peripherals, we can sit here all day talking about what they could have done when designing the console, but that certainly isn't going to change anything. However, I think we can both agree that the way to help to begin to rectify that is for Sony to get with the picture with developers since their machine scares them away, which is what I was suggesting with getting more development tools out there. Oh and sales too, lower sales is one of the biggest problems too. 

If people suddenly drop their excitement for MGS4, FFXIII or any other game because of exclusive rumors or whatever, then they're probably not real fans of that game in the first place and just wanted it for bragging rights. Then how the opposite is true with people who don't even care that much for MGS4 or FFXIII for example being excited for it because that means bragging rights for them. There isn't much more I can say about it.

Lastly, could you also say that the PS2 was not the least expensive DVD player for long?