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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Death of in-game music...

I agree and disagree with some of your points Disolotude.

Elevator Music in a Metal Gear game... is almost too fitting... Kojima's a weird muthafucca :D But if you choose not to listen to the iPod, the music in that game is AMAZING. There alert music is entirely too badass :) And how badass was it that he put podcasts on there LOL

I like what the 360 did as far as implementing custom sound tracks, but honestly, I wish it was the developers choice, I'd rather they not support custom soundtracks for every title. I was SO thinking about this the other day and this thread rocks because of that fact :P

I've been humming the goddamn first level in Super Stardust for like the last month and a half -_-; SO CATCHY, but it just works well for that type of game.

I'm kinda all over the place with this post, so forgive me :P (I've got mgs4 on the brain and I can't play it because I'm stuck at work >



From 0 to KICKASS in .stupid seconds.

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disolitude said:
bardicverse said:
On related topics, a lot of composers are getting away from live recordings and returning to MIDI, now that we can use software synths to resemble high quality instruments. We can make the game be a logical dj - we create 4 or 8 bar musical riffs per instrument, give it a theme name, and tell the computer to choose instruments to mix and match, based on the given situation to match a theme. This means that you might not hear the same song twice - EVER. Pretty neat stuff.

Pretty interesting stuff...could work well but it may take away from the game too. Like if the computer suddenly decides its best to play a different tune in your favourite part. Like if the battletoads music on the car level suddenly changed, I'd go ape shit... :)


Let me explain further. I'm not sure how musically inclined you are, so forgive me if I take it too basic. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence =)

Melodies are written in sequence, sometimes a bar (4 beats for example) of music, sometimes 2, 4 6 or 8 bars. A sequence that is repeated is called a theme. For example, we all (should) know the main theme from the Legend of Zelda. A variation is the theme with something changed to it - enough of the original theme to recognize it, but with a curveball thrown in.

So lets say I have a level in a FPS game, it takes place on a spacestation. I'm going to have 4 to 5 situations, no enemies around, a few enemies around, a ton of enemies around, low health and death sequence. I'm going to create a theme for the space station for when there's no enemies around. Its kind of mellow, some slow synth lines, an ambient drum track with a bit of reverb. If I just had this play over and over, it'd get boring. So I make some variations - maybe I'll take a few instruments out, or add some more in, change a few notes around, something to make it unique but similar. I'll create maybe 3 of these variations. So now we have a theme and 3 variations on that theme. By the end of the composition, I'll have a total of 20 pieces of music , 5 themes with an additional 3 variations each (for a total of 15 variations + 5 original themes). Of course, to keep the music all sounding like the space sation scenario, the musical lines will all have something in common, even across themes. The cheap way out is to compose at a higher speed and cut the speed in half for slower, ambient sections, then high combat situations you'd have the music at the faster tempo.

You would end up with a variation sequence that was something like : Space_quiet1, Space_quiet2, Space_quiet_3, Space Quiet_4, Space_Few_Enemies1, Space_Few_Enemies2, Space_Few_Enemies3, Space_Few_Enemies4, Space_Active1, Space_Active2, Space_Active3, and Space_Active4.


So lets go back to your point on Battletoads - the music wouldn't change, it'd just have subtle variations on the music.

The beauty of composing this way is that you only have to create a 4 or 8 bar piece of music and then improvise on it.

Now, this MIDI situation with the computer would allow for an even further diversity in the music. The composer would provide individual instrument lines per each theme and variation. Lets say we have Drums, Bass, guitar, synth for example. We have 1 theme and 3 variations. Each one has some combination of the 4 instruments. So the theme could have all 4 instruments, and variation 1 will have drums and bass, variation 2 will have guitars and bass, theme 3 will have synth and drums, etc. As you could see, there are now roughly something like 20 different options PER theme and variation. So for the Space_Slow, we could have 80 different ways of hearing it. Multiply that by the amount of themes there are for the level (5), we now have 400 different songs all based on those composed themes and variations. Pretty crazy, huh?

 

 

 



you can plug in your i pod into the xbox 360 if you dont like the in game music



I agree... i often think about how very few games now a days i'd listen too soudtrack wise.



Video game music has certainly been given more freedom but with that freedom has come a desertion of creativity.

THE best video game soundtracks are from classic games. From the incredible keyboarding of Koji Kondo in Mario games to the amazing Boroque inspired midi-orchestrations of the Castlevania series; especially Super Castlevania IV. Greatest overall soundtrack in all video gamedom.

Most music today is simply audio service pieces meant to fill the void between cutscenes instead of being an integral part of the games composition.

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The rEVOLution is not being televised

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bardicverse said:
disolitude said:
bardicverse said:
On related topics, a lot of composers are getting away from live recordings and returning to MIDI, now that we can use software synths to resemble high quality instruments. We can make the game be a logical dj - we create 4 or 8 bar musical riffs per instrument, give it a theme name, and tell the computer to choose instruments to mix and match, based on the given situation to match a theme. This means that you might not hear the same song twice - EVER. Pretty neat stuff.

Pretty interesting stuff...could work well but it may take away from the game too. Like if the computer suddenly decides its best to play a different tune in your favourite part. Like if the battletoads music on the car level suddenly changed, I'd go ape shit... :)


Let me explain further. I'm not sure how musically inclined you are, so forgive me if I take it too basic. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence =)

Melodies are written in sequence, sometimes a bar (4 beats for example) of music, sometimes 2, 4 6 or 8 bars. A sequence that is repeated is called a theme. For example, we all (should) know the main theme from the Legend of Zelda. A variation is the theme with something changed to it - enough of the original theme to recognize it, but with a curveball thrown in.

So lets say I have a level in a FPS game, it takes place on a spacestation. I'm going to have 4 to 5 situations, no enemies around, a few enemies around, a ton of enemies around, low health and death sequence. I'm going to create a theme for the space station for when there's no enemies around. Its kind of mellow, some slow synth lines, an ambient drum track with a bit of reverb. If I just had this play over and over, it'd get boring. So I make some variations - maybe I'll take a few instruments out, or add some more in, change a few notes around, something to make it unique but similar. I'll create maybe 3 of these variations. So now we have a theme and 3 variations on that theme. By the end of the composition, I'll have a total of 20 pieces of music , 5 themes with an additional 3 variations each (for a total of 15 variations + 5 original themes). Of course, to keep the music all sounding like the space sation scenario, the musical lines will all have something in common, even across themes. The cheap way out is to compose at a higher speed and cut the speed in half for slower, ambient sections, then high combat situations you'd have the music at the faster tempo.

You would end up with a variation sequence that was something like : Space_quiet1, Space_quiet2, Space_quiet_3, Space Quiet_4, Space_Few_Enemies1, Space_Few_Enemies2, Space_Few_Enemies3, Space_Few_Enemies4, Space_Active1, Space_Active2, Space_Active3, and Space_Active4.


So lets go back to your point on Battletoads - the music wouldn't change, it'd just have subtle variations on the music.

The beauty of composing this way is that you only have to create a 4 or 8 bar piece of music and then improvise on it.

Now, this MIDI situation with the computer would allow for an even further diversity in the music. The composer would provide individual instrument lines per each theme and variation. Lets say we have Drums, Bass, guitar, synth for example. We have 1 theme and 3 variations. Each one has some combination of the 4 instruments. So the theme could have all 4 instruments, and variation 1 will have drums and bass, variation 2 will have guitars and bass, theme 3 will have synth and drums, etc. As you could see, there are now roughly something like 20 different options PER theme and variation. So for the Space_Slow, we could have 80 different ways of hearing it. Multiply that by the amount of themes there are for the level (5), we now have 400 different songs all based on those composed themes and variations. Pretty crazy, huh?

 

 

 


Ah, I see. That is amazing actually. Its could be used to streamline what I like in game music and make it interesting when it comes to replay value as well. However this being more of a delivery techniqe...the bottom line would come down to the actual musical compositions. It always does... I agree that the 4 to 8 bar format is the best when it comes to theme music, and this would work great in that case...but there were games which showcased that musical compositions can be a lot more complex too.

Sonic CD for example...those are full songs...which were specifically designed for the level you are playing. And they work amazingly for that game...



what about GTA IV Soundtrack, thats huge!
C'mon its true? right?



    

Justice is always Right... Oh wait... that was Wright...

ItalianBoyPhil said:
what about GTA IV Soundtrack, thats huge!
C'mon its true? right?

The best part of GTA4 music wise is the opening when the hand drawn pics are loading... after that it becomes bunch of no name tunes you listen to while you drive and bunch of licensed songs you've heard before.



I dont know i think you have some points, but Silent Hill for the Ps1--that song still gives me creeps



 

I disagree.

Well, I agree that catchier tunes were composed back in the day, and of course those simple tunes had their charm. But todays game music is really great and adds to the immersion on a totally different level.

Memorable? Well often no, but the purpose of in game music is to create atmosphere, not have a life on it's own. Yes, just like movie soundtracks.