The problem with an argument like this, is both sides have been arguing about it for ~5000 years or so. So all the points are pretty well laid out, and you can never really win an argument like this, no matter which side you're on.

I think in my philosophy class a few years ago, we logically came to the conclusion that there IS a god. And then we logically came to the conclusion that there wasn't a god. And then we came to the conclusion that we might not exist anyway.

lol philosophy,

Dude in phylosophy their is no correct answer. Everything is correct.

Let me tell you there IS an answer.

Just for my person:

I´m not religiou´s, but:

- I don´t lack any love
- I have fun when I help people
- I´m polite
- I like my life
- I´m looking forward to the future rather than living in the past.

I think I´m a happy person so far. If some of you (and you know who is meant if it is you) want to tell me I can´t be lucky because I don´t "believe in there god": Great. Tell this all the other people who don´t do it. Those 4 Billion.


Welcome back to middle age...

I would class myself as an athiest although I have recently subscribed to the church of the flying spaghetti monster.

If their is a God, he is doing an excellent job of doing nothing.

I don't get where this topic stemed from but I'll put in my 2cents anyway. To be concerned about where God came from and how he got created is meaningless and irrelevant as we're not equiped to begin to comprehend that. I know as humans that we love to feel that we are the most intelligent of beings but in actuality in the grand scale of the universe we are insignificant. They only thing that keeps us from being TRULLY insignificant is that our creator is a mighty being and hence our sature in the universe means something only because of him; only because of the love he has for us.

Imagine if you could a famous Rock star coming into a very well known prestigeous night club and you, a nobody, won't even dare enter that club cause no one knows you cause you are, to them, insignificant. You may think you're hot s* but in their eyes you are just s*. However, if you enter with this Rock Star and the Star says "hey, he's/she's with me" you now have some sature but only because of the Rock Star. This is kinda how we are viewed in the universe.

But I must say though, for one to look around at how the world works with it's beauty and functionality and not  believe that the world has a creator is bizarre? To think that all this wonder came about by fluke, my friend, is what's trully porposterous.

i dont think i can make myself totally clear since there are some words i would like to use but dont know the english translation of them (if u find out wich pm me them ;))

I dont think there is a God. simply because I am not raised believing in any. Now iam on the age i can perfectly make my own decissions i've decided that i don't believe in a higher power. This because as the ultimate power there should be a beter world. no one dying of hunger/starvation, no war etc.

and in my opinion relegion makes only problems (not that i hate religion or hate/dislike the people who are believers) but in the middle east, and perviously in the middle ages. to much wars for nothing.
aswell relegions are restrictions since they decide what u may and may not do in your life.

I live a free live with my own actions and toughts without someone filling it in for me. and iam happy with it.
I put my strength out of things i can grab, see. family and friends as example. Aswell i can't believe things before i saw it (except aliens, but thats an other story).

anyway before i make it to complicated for peoples who cant follow me, ill leave it to this.

One argument I'm seeing here consistantly is that there can't be a higher power because the world would be less screwed up if there was. What you're neglecting is the concept of free will (which we all have) and the ability of God to choose not to excercise his power. Lets put it this way:

When you were growing up, mommy and daddy watched over you, told you what not to do, and what to do. They made you aware of the consequences of your actions. You did as you were told, or else. Now you've grown up, and you do as you please. Mommy and Daddy don't come and reign you in when you've been bad, you have free will.

The same is true with humanity. We have free will. We know that its bad to commit genocide, or cause war, or make it impossible for people to eat, but we do it anyway, because we have free will. God is watching, allowing us to make our own mistakes and learn our own lessons, and letting us all be the people we want to be. He chooses not to intervein because then we would no longer have free will. What good is a creation that follows you because you make them? Wouldn't it be better to have a creation that follows you because it wants to? Do you really not see the big difference?

1. Every person is a sinner

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

2. Good works will NOT get you into Heaven

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Hosea 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

3. Jesus Christ who is the Son of God gave his life for us and if you believe in Jesus Christ and ask him into your heart and to forgive you of your sins then you shall inherit eternal life.

John 3:16 and 17. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

*If you want to know 100% for sure that when you die you will go to heaven and not hell just pray something like this. "Jesus I know that I am a sinner and that the bible says that even our best deeds are as filthy rags before you and that there is no way I can get to heaven on my own. Jesus can you save me and forgive me of my sins."