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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why so much negative attitude this gen ?

d21lewis on 04 June 2008

SHUT UP! I'LL PUNCH ALL OF YOU IN THE MOUTH!!

*sorry. that's just this gen talking.



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amp316 on 04 June 2008

There's always been negativity. The Nintendo vs. Sega wars that went on during the SNES and Genesis days were even worse. We just didn't have the internet forums like we do now. Trust me, I've seen people ready to get in fist fights over it. Sad but true.



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ClaudeLv250 on 04 June 2008
DMeisterJ said:

There's more, smaller ones, but my post was to only prove a point.

You don't see PS360 owners petitioning for games on their system, so like I said, Wii owners feel like every game needs to be on their system.


http://www.petitiononline.com/Haze4PS3/petition.html - Haze petition to have it as a PS3 exclusive (before it went exclusive).

http://www.petitiononline.com/m3t4lg3/petition.html - MGS4 to 360 petition

Dragon Quest IX - Didn't happen, but there was almost a petition to have it on a console (PS3)

http://www.petitiononline.com/FF13X360/petition.html - FF13 for 360 petition

http://www.petitiononline.com/RE14862/petition.html - Petition for RE Umbrella Chronicles on PS2/3. Apparently no one cared.

The DMC4 anti-360 and Monster Hunter 3 anti-Wii petitions were already covered.

http://www.petitiononline.com/PS3DR/petition.html - Dead Rising for PS3 petition (lots of Capcom petitions out there...)



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greenmedic88 on 04 June 2008
LordTheNightKnight said:

greenmedic88 said:
Most publishers don't want to take big risks with dev projects on the Wii.

That's why I recommended that test.

As long as other major 3rd party supporters like Ubisoft and EA continue keep their Wii softs profitable, I don't see what their motive for doing "test runs" would be. We did see a creative game like Boom Blox from EA, but it was not expected to be a major title even though a lot of gamer (myself included) gave it high marks. And it wasn't exactly a high budget, high risk title either. But as for a high budget port to recreate the best visuals possible on the Wii (still downgraded from any other platform), again, what is the motive for this?

Personally, I don't want to see most efforts by third party devs being reduced to ports.

So what if you don't want it? It would be a low risk way to see if the Wii will take developers' bigger games. It's for them, and Wii owners, not you.

I speak for multi platform gamers who will not buy an inferior Wii port of a game simply because they like the system. If the same game is available for all systems, odds are highly against me buying the Wii version. I don't think I'm the only one in this boat.

Do I buy a high budget Wii port or do I buy a high budget original IP exclusively designed for the Wii? Is this even a question?


But when edgy titles like NMH underperform, what does that tell publishers about the Wii audience?

It only underperformed in an infamous Japan launch party. In terms of sales, it's turned a healthy profit. It's also not a big budget game. If it was on the HD systems, it would have cost more, and likely flopped.

NMH was not a commercial success. It hardly exceeded expectations. Even if it made some profits, Suda was disappointed by the level of success.

The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to believe that Ubisoft bought the rights for NA distribution relatively cheap.

And if it had been designed for the PS3, we would have either seen a very different game (much larger with deeper AI) or we would have seen a game that looked strangely out of place on the platform. As much as I loved NMH, I just couldn't see myself playing the same game on the PS3.

Capcom is leading the push in that respect, so I hope no one actually blames Capcom for the relatively low sales of their first original Wii IP because of a failure to properly market the game.

Well they blame Capcom a little, but a lot of us understand it's a revival of a nearly dead genre, which is almost more of a risk than a big budget game. Since it's still turnind a healthy profit (unless the game cost more than $7 million), I could see a bigger push with a sequel.

Spyborgs is going to be a very important title in terms of what can be expected from Capcom in the future. I really don't know what to say if it fares no better than Z&W. It would help to know what the budget is for this title, but that's not something open to the public.

Well the director says this is an actual game, which may not indicate how much it costs, but it's not going to be cheap.

It may be cheaper than you think. I've looked at the early dev materials, and unless this is a very long game, it should be a fairly tight (not a large team), but creative dev team project, similar to Grasshopper.

All I can say is, if you want the continued support of Capcom on the Wii, buy it if it's a good title. Buy it for your friends too.


 


 



jalsonmi on 04 June 2008
ssj12 said:
Words Of Wisdom said:

People forget pretty quick what it was like back in the SNES/Genesis generation... the N64/PS1 generation...

There was a lot of hostility out there. It may be because you were too young to remember the fierce rivalries that were out there. One of the biggest arguing points was the difference between the SNES and Genesis Mortal Kombat (kudos to those who remember). It wasn't just between fans either. There was plenty of malice on the part of the console manufacturers as well.

This generation is no more hostile than any other ones; it's just that some people are now old enough to see it and the internet allows information to be exchanged much quicker.


I still don't understand how SEGA screwed that all up.. they had better titles on the Genesis then the SNES had... much better....


Really? Because when I think of the best games of that generation--say a top 10--I don't think I can think of more than one Genesis game that would be on that list. Maybe you'd say MK, but I was always with Rocket Pig that the extra lvel and much better looking graphics more than made up for the blood (didn't Genesis have only like 12 colors?). I know I'm in the minority there, but hey, I'd probably say MK diesn't deserve a top 10 slot anyway. Off the top of my head, and in no particular order:

  1. Chrono Trigger
  2. Final Fantasy IV
  3. Secret of Mana
  4. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
  5. Super Mario World
  6. Super Metroid
  7. Donkey Kong Country
  8. Super Mario Kart
  9. Sim City
  10. Sonic the Hedgehog 2

I'm willing to admit if I'm wrong--maybe I'm completely misremembering, so let me know what games you're talking about. I just don't, and have never, seen it.



My consoles and the fates they suffered:

Atari 7800 (Sold), Intellivision (Thrown out), Gameboy (Lost), Super Nintendo (Stolen), Super Nintendo (2nd copy) (Thrown out by mother), Nintendo 64 (Still own), Super Nintendo (3rd copy) (Still own), Wii (Sold)

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greenmedic88 on 04 June 2008

That's a pretty fair list although MK2 was actually the better game on both the Genesis and the SNES. And Streets of Rage 2 arguably deserves to be on that list. And one of the SFII games just based upon sales alone.

I don't think most will put Chrono Trigger as the top game of the 4th Gen of consoles, but it was definitely my favorite.



spdk1 on 04 June 2008

that capcom BBS thread for MH3 is the biggest amount of whining I've seen in a while...

quoted from the 1st post on there:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I hope that this will be your worst decision.
From MH3 ive expected HD graphics , sound and play it on regular controler
hi development cost ?! WTF .. if you think this will be good with wii controlers youre wrong and i hope that piracy on wii will kill mh3 ...

but go on make mh3 with ****y graphics add few monsters kill another great title like RE etc

MH3 should be multiplatform title if you search for profit ...

i really didnt expect that

big lol for the one that had this great idea i would slap you in your face now really... think of me what you want its my opinion"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

WOW!

this stuff happens to all it's not just Wii Fanboys, I remember giggling at the sony fanboys who could not stand the idea behind DQIX on the DS....

check this thread out:

http://boards.ign.com/dragon_warrior/b5658/132970914/p1/?52

"I laugh at those who DO have a DS. POS system and worthless handheld. Not worth the effort."



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LordTheNightKnight on 04 June 2008
greenmedic88 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

greenmedic88 said:
Most publishers don't want to take big risks with dev projects on the Wii.

That's why I recommended that test.

As long as other major 3rd party supporters like Ubisoft and EA continue keep their Wii softs profitable, I don't see what their motive for doing "test runs" would be. We did see a creative game like Boom Blox from EA, but it was not expected to be a major title even though a lot of gamer (myself included) gave it high marks. And it wasn't exactly a high budget, high risk title either. But as for a high budget port to recreate the best visuals possible on the Wii (still downgraded from any other platform), again, what is the motive for this?(1)

Personally, I don't want to see most efforts by third party devs being reduced to ports.

So what if you don't want it? It would be a low risk way to see if the Wii will take developers' bigger games. It's for them, and Wii owners, not you.

I speak for multi platform gamers who will not buy an inferior Wii port of a game simply because they like the system. If the same game is available for all systems, odds are highly against me buying the Wii version. I don't think I'm the only one in this boat. (2)

Do I buy a high budget Wii port or do I buy a high budget original IP exclusively designed for the Wii? Is this even a question? (3)


But when edgy titles like NMH underperform, what does that tell publishers about the Wii audience?

It only underperformed in an infamous Japan launch party. In terms of sales, it's turned a healthy profit. It's also not a big budget game. If it was on the HD systems, it would have cost more, and likely flopped.

NMH was not a commercial success. It hardly exceeded expectations. Even if it made some profits, Suda was disappointed by the level of success. (4)

The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to believe that Ubisoft bought the rights for NA distribution relatively cheap. (5)

And if it had been designed for the PS3, we would have either seen a very different game (much larger with deeper AI) or we would have seen a game that looked strangely out of place on the platform. As much as I loved NMH, I just couldn't see myself playing the same game on the PS3. (6)

Capcom is leading the push in that respect, so I hope no one actually blames Capcom for the relatively low sales of their first original Wii IP because of a failure to properly market the game.

Well they blame Capcom a little, but a lot of us understand it's a revival of a nearly dead genre, which is almost more of a risk than a big budget game. Since it's still turnind a healthy profit (unless the game cost more than $7 million), I could see a bigger push with a sequel.

Spyborgs is going to be a very important title in terms of what can be expected from Capcom in the future. I really don't know what to say if it fares no better than Z&W. It would help to know what the budget is for this title, but that's not something open to the public.

Well the director says this is an actual game, which may not indicate how much it costs, but it's not going to be cheap.

It may be cheaper than you think. I've looked at the early dev materials, and unless this is a very long game, it should be a fairly tight (not a large team), but creative dev team project, similar to Grasshopper. (7)

All I can say is, if you want the continued support of Capcom on the Wii, buy it if it's a good title. Buy it for your friends too.


 


 


1. First of all, Steven Spielberg was a major creative mind behind Bloom Blox, so this was more him easing into a new medium, than not taking a risk with the Wii.

1a. Second, EA is not following ubisoft's pattern. They've stated that their games will be shooting for all used accessibility. That is not what those games from ubiday are doing, save for RRR3.

1b. Third, just focusing on cheap shovelware is profitable in the short term. In the game business, you want people to keep buying. Even if games are so cheap they're almost impossible to flop, the risk of losing customers means the profit margin is too narrow. That's why Nintendo actually spent money on their downmarket games. They wanted the new gamers to stay with them for more games. In other words, this won't be profitable for long, so trying to focus on more than just one presumed Wii demographic will become more important. 

2. And that's why I stated it's not for you. You don't have to buy the Wii version. Others don't have to either. The key is to see if others would make that choice. If enough will, then make more. If enough won't, then they stop. The reason I suggested porting from the 6th gen is that it means the least money is lost of a test doesn't work. 

3. If nothing is offered that appeals to you, go for the HD version. If what is offered appeals to others, then they'll go for the Wii version. You can't use your own personal taste to decide what games would be worth selling. I don't use my own tastes, since I know games I don't like are still hits (I don't play sports games, for one). 

4. As far as I know, Suda only commented about sales in Japan, which were relatively low. I don't know if he commented on US sales, but they were much better. The first week in the US was nearly four times the first week in Japan (39k to 11k), and the total sales of the US are five times the total sales in Japan (200k to 40k).

5. Duh. Suda 51's games are niche titles. I don't even think the game itself had a high budget. That's why it really isn't a good way to tell if high budget games won't sell on the Wii, since high budget games cannot afford be niche. For that matter, I don't think Fire Emblem or Nippon Icchi games cost a lot either.

6. Which is why I stated that game might have flopped. Yet still, it was a niche game, and this is about big budget games. 

7. What I mean by cheap is by the level of money ubisoft is putting into their games. Even though NMH was not big budget, it did cost a lot more than those games. 



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The Ghost of RubangB on 04 June 2008

Ooh, a top 10 of SNES/Genesis, eh?

Out of This World (aka Another World)
Flashback: The Quest for Identity
Blackthorne
Rock 'n' Roll Racing
Legend of the Mystical Ninja
E.V.O.: The Search for Eden
NBA Jam: Tournament Edition (SNES one for L/R turbo)
TMNT: Turtles in Time
Zombies Ate My Neighbors
Sonic the Hedgehog 2

Those are 10, out of order. 9 on SNES and 1 on Genesis. I left out Nintendo-made games, 'cuz that wouldn't leave room for Sonic 2. I also wanted to put Shadowrun on there, but I've only played the SNES version and I hear the Genesis one is completely different and way better, so I can't vouch for it myself yet. I also couldn't find room for Zombies Ate My Neighbors (SNES) or Kid Chameleon (Genesis).



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spdk1 on 04 June 2008

Suda 51 must have felt it was some success as they had a champagne party after the US sales came in....

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.famitsu.com%2Fgame%2Fnews%2F1213638_1124.html



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