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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Rotten Graphics, is it the Wii's Fault, or Lazy Sloppy Programming?

Smidlee on 29 May 2008
NJ5 said:
Smidlee said:

You the only one I've seen who made this claim. 3d art cost no matter the resolution of hardware.

HD demands more on the hardware since you can see more details of the 3d models for a distance. The hard work still has to be done on the 3d models so the models doesn't look like crap with close ups. Yet in games like SSBB these details are seldom seen during game play running only in 480p.

Also it noted that developing a game when it comes to the expensive art can be uses for both 360 and PS3 with easy since they pretty close in power. This is the reason why the Wii version of Civ Revolution was put on hold while Ps3 version wasn't. The art work had to be totally redone with the Wii version and Fixaris didn't have a PS2 version to fall back on nor the man power to continue.

 


^ Bolded. You obviously aren't very well informed. A quick example off the top of my head:

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/12/18/kazunori-yamauchi-dishes-more-gran-turismo-5-details

Kazunori Yamauchi: GT5 cars take 6 months to model

"In GT and GT2, both for PS1, a designer spent a day to model a car. In GT3 and GT4, for PS2, the same worker spent a month modeling the same car due to the increased amount of polygons. In GT5 for PS3, they require six months to do the same job," Yamauchi explained.

 


In another words GT5 has more detailed 3d models (now including interiors) than GT3 and GT4. How much do you want to bet that these GT5 models look a lot better than GT4 models running in 480p or even a SDTV?



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disolitude on 29 May 2008
theRepublic said:
disolitude said:
I am not bragging when I say this...but I own a 58 inch plasma and Wii gets played through component cables.

I see how someone with a smaller CRT TV may think Wii can compete with the ps360 but when everything is maxed out on a big screen like that...one can see Wii has more in common with gamecube/xbox then ps360.

As a matter of fact, to me Ninja gaiden on the xbox still looks better than any wii game I've ever seen including nintendos lineup. And original xbox did 720p in a few games (mortal kombat armageddon...few others)...wii has yet to do that. So I amm not sure programmers are to blame 100% here...

I really think those Nintendo component cables for the Wii are just to make HDTV owners feel good.  They really don't add much to the Wii's graphics.

The Wii was designed with the mainstream consumer in mind, and the mainstream consumer only has a CRT TV.  The Wii was designed with this in mind, and any more power would be overkill for standard definition.

From personal experience with Halo 3, Gears of War, NCAA Football, and Tiger Woods (all 360 games) on a CRT, I can tell you that these games don't look any better than Super Mario Galaxy or SSB: Brawl on the same screen.  Only if you put these games on a big HDTV, do the 360 games start to stand out from the Wii games.


I agree, component cables for the wii make it look better on my TV but hardly...I had a CRT TV a year ago and didn't realize why ps360 were considered that amazing and powerful (other than gears, that looked sweet).

then I got something that was 58 inches and HD. Alright, I see how they rock...

 



HappySqurriel on 29 May 2008

I think the message that Nintendo meant to send with the Wii is "You don't need the latest and greatest technology to make games that look good and play really well" and what a lot of third party developers read was "On the Wii graphics are unimportant and not worth the effort" ...

For the most part this hasn't hurt any developers yet, but with companies like Factor 5 and High Voltage producing games that look dramatically better than what other developers have produced, many developers may find that their games are losing sales and 'hype' to games which because they haven't put the effort into their own title.



NJ5 on 29 May 2008
Smidlee said:
NJ5 said:

^ Bolded. You obviously aren't very well informed. A quick example off the top of my head:

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/12/18/kazunori-yamauchi-dishes-more-gran-turismo-5-details

Kazunori Yamauchi: GT5 cars take 6 months to model

"In GT and GT2, both for PS1, a designer spent a day to model a car. In GT3 and GT4, for PS2, the same worker spent a month modeling the same car due to the increased amount of polygons. In GT5 for PS3, they require six months to do the same job," Yamauchi explained.

 


In another words GT5 has more detailed 3d models (now including interiors) than GT3 and GT4. How much do you want to bet that these GT5 models look a lot better than GT4 models running in 480p or even a SDTV?


Of course it's more detailed, that's the whole point!

As for your second sentence, why did you suddenly change the subject? Weren't we talking about development cost? The point is that making games for the PS3 and 360 requires much more effort from artists. That detail simply isn't possible on less powerful hardware, whereas now it's expected on those platforms.

 



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Smidlee on 29 May 2008
HappySqurriel said:

I think the message that Nintendo meant to send with the Wii is "You don't need the latest and greatest technology to make games that look good and play really well" and what a lot of third party developers read was "On the Wii graphics are unimportant and not worth the effort" ...

For the most part this hasn't hurt any developers yet, but with companies like Factor 5 and High Voltage producing games that look dramatically better than what other developers have produced, many developers may find that their games are losing sales and 'hype' to games which because they haven't put the effort into their own title.


 That has yet to be seen as of right now games that are not so hot when it comes to graphics is selling like hot cakes.



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HappySqurriel on 29 May 2008
Smidlee said:
HappySqurriel said:

I think the message that Nintendo meant to send with the Wii is "You don't need the latest and greatest technology to make games that look good and play really well" and what a lot of third party developers read was "On the Wii graphics are unimportant and not worth the effort" ...

For the most part this hasn't hurt any developers yet, but with companies like Factor 5 and High Voltage producing games that look dramatically better than what other developers have produced, many developers may find that their games are losing sales and 'hype' to games which because they haven't put the effort into their own title.


 That has yet to be seen as of right now games that are not so hot when it comes to graphics is selling like hot cakes.


Obviously, we don't know for sure but one of the standard trends in the industry is that games that look better (in both artistic style and the technical side of graphics) tend to sell better than their competition ...



mesoteto on 29 May 2008
Smidlee said:
Who's "all real wii fans?"

the ones that bought the system, that want the system, and the ones that play the system

 

Not Real,

the ones that bought it b/c its the cool thing to do and have since left it sitting on the self b/c they never really planned on playing it

 

 



 

Smidlee on 29 May 2008
NJ5 said:
Smidlee said:
NJ5 said:

^ Bolded. You obviously aren't very well informed. A quick example off the top of my head:

http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/12/18/kazunori-yamauchi-dishes-more-gran-turismo-5-details

Kazunori Yamauchi: GT5 cars take 6 months to model

"In GT and GT2, both for PS1, a designer spent a day to model a car. In GT3 and GT4, for PS2, the same worker spent a month modeling the same car due to the increased amount of polygons. In GT5 for PS3, they require six months to do the same job," Yamauchi explained.

 


In another words GT5 has more detailed 3d models (now including interiors) than GT3 and GT4. How much do you want to bet that these GT5 models look a lot better than GT4 models running in 480p or even a SDTV?


Of course it's more detailed, that's the whole point!

As for your second sentence, why did you suddenly change the subject? Weren't we talking about development cost? The point is that making games for the PS3 and 360 requires much more effort from artists. That detail simply isn't possible on less powerful hardware, whereas now it's expected on those platforms.

 

 The point is if you want to put a lot of effort into graphics then would you want to have 88mb of ram to work with or 256 mb-512 mb of ram to work with. Wouldn't you target those who actually bought a console for graphics?

 



dib8rman on 29 May 2008

Actually, I can vouche for the components, the point of 480i vs 480p isn't to bump graphis, it's to bump clarity.

When I played My Smash Bros Brawl at my friends house on his HDtv with AV's I can make out mass groups of objects but the items can be a blur, also the edges seem blurry, the entire thing is a little fuzzy, but that's mostly because its a 32inch with components on my 47 inch lcd I can see thing much more clearly.



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nine0nine on 29 May 2008

when peole say things like "the wii cpu is 3x more powerful than the gc", what exactly to they expect this to mean in real world?

If you look at some of the best box1 games they were stunning and still look great today and in my opinion, aside from the resolution increase the average game doesn't look that much better on the 360 which has a CPU thats probably 10 - 15x more powerful than its predecessor. Halo 2 - 3, PGR 2- 3- 4, Forza 1- 2, if these games look barely better on a machine thats so much more powerful, what do you expect from a machine that's only 3x more powerful?

I dont see the point in these arguement anyway, we all know that the wii is never going to do much more graphically than the cube and does anyone really care if thats the case?

I think Nintendo have played a master stroke with the Wii, basically forcing people to stop being so anal about graphics and show them games are supposed to be fun, not a lesson in physics, come next generation the sony and MS machines will have even less avenues for improvement graphically, no 'HD' to brag about and so on. Nintendo will be able to enter the HD generation to a userbase of people that actually already have HDTVs and will be able to utilise it.