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Forums - Sony Discussion - Bluray vs hddvd - HD-DVD Buyers Beware

LordTheNightKnight on 12 June 2007
dallas said:
No no no. Toshiba/Microsoft are only staying in the race, even to this poor degree, because they are selling their HDVD players below production cost.

And, when Sony's new BD players come out...the $499 one....it will push them to the top and convince Microsoft to end this, because microsoft has to be losing money on something that they have no possible chance of winning unless a nuclear bomb or asteroid hits sony headquarters.


 1. In this case, the Ps3 does come it. Selling the hardware at a loss is a common practice. Software makes up for it in the long run (unless you screw it up like with the Xbox).

 2.  $500 is still greater than $300-$400, so that won't convince anyone they are about to lose.

 3. Microsoft just supports HD-DVD. Toshiba has most of the investment. Yet they aren't losing any more money than Sony is in terms of HD films.

 In short, I hope you were being sarcastic, because that argument fails to prove what will happen on way or the other. 



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Around the Network
akuma587 on 12 June 2007

Toshiba lowers sales targets for HD-DVD players.

http://www.reuters.com/article/technology-media-telco-SP/idUST16250120070612

They are even doing this amidst a substantial discount period, the $100 rebate geared for Father's Day. HD-DVD is a sinking ship, and anybody who thinks otherwise will be in for a rude awakening. Its upcoming release schedule is lackluster at best. Little more than rehashes of older titles.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

LordTheNightKnight on 12 June 2007
akuma587 said:
Toshiba lowers sales targets for HD-DVD players.

http://www.reuters.com/article/technology-media-telco-SP/idUST16250120070612

They are even doing this amidst a substantial discount period, the $100 rebate geared for Father's Day. HD-DVD is a sinking ship, and anybody who thinks otherwise will be in for a rude awakening. Its upcoming release schedule is lackluster at best. Little more than rehashes of older titles.

 All that says is that sales in the US were not as expected. How do we know the same isn't happening to blu-ray? If they release figures of their stand alone players increasing, then you may have more ground, but until then, you are going by incomplete information.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

dallas on 12 June 2007
LordTheNightKnight said:
dallas said:
No no no. Toshiba/Microsoft are only staying in the race, even to this poor degree, because they are selling their HDVD players below production cost.

And, when Sony's new BD players come out...the $499 one....it will push them to the top and convince Microsoft to end this, because microsoft has to be losing money on something that they have no possible chance of winning unless a nuclear bomb or asteroid hits sony headquarters.


 1. In this case, the Ps3 does come it. Selling the hardware at a loss is a common practice. Software makes up for it in the long run (unless you screw it up like with the Xbox).

 2.  $500 is still greater than $300-$400, so that won't convince anyone they are about to lose.

 3. Microsoft just supports HD-DVD. Toshiba has most of the investment. Yet they aren't losing any more money than Sony is in terms of HD films.

 In short, I hope you were being sarcastic, because that argument fails to prove what will happen on way or the other. 

 

This isn't going to "prove" anything, but it is merely evidence of a trend, that is in the blu-ray's favor.  In fact, you really can't prove anything at this point, we'll just have to see how the whole thing plays out....but keep in mind, 3:1 sales, BD's favor

 Secondly, Microsoft is the Originator and manufacturer of the HD-DVD.  Toshiba may make the players, but microsoft makes the $$$ when the HDDVD movies are sold. 

And, yes, $500 is greater than $300, but it is also a lot less than the current price of $800, so i'm expecting a big jump in BD sales when this new player does finally come out.   

 



dallas on 12 June 2007

Ohh, and don't forget the $299 BD drive for PCs. That will help as well.



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LordTheNightKnight on 12 June 2007
dallas said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
dallas said:
No no no. Toshiba/Microsoft are only staying in the race, even to this poor degree, because they are selling their HDVD players below production cost.

And, when Sony's new BD players come out...the $499 one....it will push them to the top and convince Microsoft to end this, because microsoft has to be losing money on something that they have no possible chance of winning unless a nuclear bomb or asteroid hits sony headquarters.


1. In this case, the Ps3 does come it. Selling the hardware at a loss is a common practice. Software makes up for it in the long run (unless you screw it up like with the Xbox).

2. $500 is still greater than $300-$400, so that won't convince anyone they are about to lose.

3. Microsoft just supports HD-DVD. Toshiba has most of the investment. Yet they aren't losing any more money than Sony is in terms of HD films.

In short, I hope you were being sarcastic, because that argument fails to prove what will happen on way or the other.

 

This isn't going to "prove" anything, but it is merely evidence of a trend, that is in the blu-ray's favor. In fact, you really can't prove anything at this point, we'll just have to see how the whole thing plays out....but keep in mind, 3:1 sales, BD's favor

Secondly, Microsoft is the Originator and manufacturer of the HD-DVD. Toshiba may make the players, but microsoft makes the $$$ when the HDDVD movies are sold.

And, yes, $500 is greater than $300, but it is also a lot less than the current price of $800, so i'm expecting a big jump in BD sales when this new player does finally come out.

 


 3:1 where? Link? And does that mean each blu-ray movie outsells each HD-DVD 3:1, or is that due to more releases, which means each films sells abot the same?

 Toshiba and NEC developed HD-DVD, and the get most of the money. Microsoft didn't have a finger involved in its development, and they don't get a cent, unless they decide to release software on HD-DVD. I can't believe you got such a basic fact wrong. I bet you even twisted sales reports of blu-ray to read 3:1, when recent reports have actually been 2:1.

 If HD-DVD players didn't get a huge leap from $400, and the $500 PS3 sold poorly, that prediction of the $500 player doing better doesn't hold much weight. 



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

akuma587 on 12 June 2007
LordTheNightKnight said:
akuma587 said:
Toshiba lowers sales targets for HD-DVD players.

http://www.reuters.com/article/technology-media-telco-SP/idUST16250120070612

They are even doing this amidst a substantial discount period, the $100 rebate geared for Father's Day. HD-DVD is a sinking ship, and anybody who thinks otherwise will be in for a rude awakening. Its upcoming release schedule is lackluster at best. Little more than rehashes of older titles.

All that says is that sales in the US were not as expected. How do we know the same isn't happening to blu-ray? If they release figures of their stand alone players increasing, then you may have more ground, but until then, you are going by incomplete information.


 I really don't see how it is good in any way for Toshiba themselves to admit that sales have been significantly lower than expected and thereby adjusting their sales predictions from 1.8 million for the year to 1 million.  Even if Blu-Ray player sales aren't as good as expected, HD-DVD is the one playing catch-up, not Blu-Ray.  It is HD-DVD's war to stay alive at this point more than Blu-Ray's war to win.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

LordTheNightKnight on 12 June 2007
akuma587 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
akuma587 said:
Toshiba lowers sales targets for HD-DVD players.

http://www.reuters.com/article/technology-media-telco-SP/idUST16250120070612

They are even doing this amidst a substantial discount period, the $100 rebate geared for Father's Day. HD-DVD is a sinking ship, and anybody who thinks otherwise will be in for a rude awakening. Its upcoming release schedule is lackluster at best. Little more than rehashes of older titles.

All that says is that sales in the US were not as expected. How do we know the same isn't happening to blu-ray? If they release figures of their stand alone players increasing, then you may have more ground, but until then, you are going by incomplete information.


I really don't see how it is good in any way for Toshiba themselves to admit that sales have been significantly lower than expected and thereby adjusting their sales predictions from 1.8 million for the year to 1 million. Even if Blu-Ray player sales aren't as good as expected, HD-DVD is the one playing catch-up, not Blu-Ray. It is HD-DVD's war to stay alive at this point more than Blu-Ray's war to win.


Again, if Sony gives a report of increased blu-ray players, other than the SP3, then this will prove something. As it is, it could just as easily be a sign for blu-ray as well.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Dolla Dolla on 12 June 2007

Here is an interesting article that came out about two weeks after the PS3 launched in Europe:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070409-hd-dvd-takes-early-lead-in-european-market.html

Look at the cost breakdown of HD-DVD vs Blu-ray:
Quoted from article:
"An HD DVD replication line costs about €800,000 and you can make 40,000 discs a day on it. A Blu-Ray replication line costs €1.7m or €1.8m and you can make 10,000 to 15,000 discs a day."



Threads of Interest:
The Movie Thread: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=6880
The Crow Eating Thread: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?start=0&id=3886
The Betting Thread: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?start=0&id=7104
Custom GIFs Thread: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=18963
The Greatest Game Ever Conceived On Any Platform
Tag: "I have tasted Obi-Wan's bitter tears"

LordTheNightKnight on 12 June 2007
Dolla Dolla said:
Here is an interesting article that came out about two weeks after the PS3 launched in Europe:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070409-hd-dvd-takes-early-lead-in-european-market.html

Look at the cost breakdown of HD-DVD vs Blu-ray:
Quoted from article:
"An HD DVD replication line costs about €800,000 and you can make 40,000 discs a day on it. A Blu-Ray replication line costs €1.7m or €1.8m and you can make 10,000 to 15,000 discs a day."

 This as well:

"Although Blu-ray may be edging out HD DVD sales in the US, it's not as if the general public is scrambling to buy either player—or movies for them—en masse just yet. A recent report released by Sony showed that among the top ten movie titles for both HD DVD and Blu-ray sales for the week ending on March 18, 2007, three spots were held by movies that sold fewer than 1,000 units each. In fact, only one movie on the entire top ten list had five-figure sales digits at all, with the remaining nine titles adding up to a combined sales total of 12,430 units.

These paltry sales numbers confirm that both HD DVD and Blu-ray have a long way to go before claiming victory in any sense of the word. Both formats have different studios on their respective sides and there has yet to be a major catalyst to get the public to tip one way or another by any meaningful metric."

 Anyone, who declares victory for either side right now, is a fool.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs