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Forums - Gaming - MGS4 to have 90 minute long cutscenes?

Torillian said:
y'know though....some people really enjoy cut scenes and would prefer not to see them go extinct just because some of you guys deem it beneath you. Hell I watched tons of Xenosaga without playing, and I loved it.

The point isn't that they should go away, the point is that taking up half of an interactive game with them is unacceptable in this day and age. Technology has improved to the point where engine-based scenes that allow player interaction are becoming the norm and are actually moving the industry forward in ways that movies could never do.




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Profcrab said:
TheBigFatJ said:
Profcrab said:

In many ways, Japanese game designers seem to pursue the same line of reasoning as anime. They have an idea for a really far out there story and they do everything to make it work instead of modifying the story to make it work. Cutscenes are how they still push their story concept even when it wouldn't fit the gameplay of that game.

90 minutes sounds like an exaggeration but even 20 minutes is too long for a video game and I can easily see Kojima including cutscenes that are 20-30 minutes. I just think he is way too high on his own ideas and is suffering from the George Lucas problem where no one can tell him "No!". Think of all the extra work that could be done on the game that might have gone into cutscenes.


This is partially a cultural issue. In Japanese culture, you generally do not correct people who are in a position above you. So, for example, a lower worker may know his boss has a fact wrong, but he will not correct his boss because it is improper to do so. In America, this should not be the case (but sometimes is).

Kojima can say things his subordinates know are incorrect, or he can have ideas they know are bad. But they wouldn't tell him these things, most likely, for cultural reasons.

To put it bluntly, Kojima can't hold the jock of Bioware's janitor.

Kojima's ideas and methods may be obsolete compared to Bioware but this is just going to insult people who are fans of his.

It seems like most in this thread agree that 90 minute cut scenes are unacceptable. As this is a site primarily filled with core/hardcore gamers, this doesn't bode very well for MGS4 as many people will just end up skipping the cut scenes. Whether or not it will hurt sales is another question.


The problem is not that Kojima's ideas are obsolete, he's trying to build a steam-powered supercar. This concept of cutscenes to tell the story is getting out of hand. He's showing his limitations. If people are chauvanistic fans then they deserve to get a little pissed. Never put any developer up on so high of a pedestal. Seriously, I would take anyone at Bungie over Kojima to tell a story in a video game. He's just not that good at it. Rabid Kojima fans are similar to rabid anime fans. It's ok to like overcomplicated stories and long cutscenes. If you do, then MGS is giving that to you in spades. Just don't fall head over heals in love with Kojima. He's catered more to those fans as the series goes on than he has to general gaming audience.


I completely agree with you. Kojima is nowhere near a great storyteller, he simply does not have the talent to make an incredible story. But that's not saying he's terrible. He's not. Kojima can still make quite decent simple stories... Snatcher and MGS1 for example:

Snatcher has a fairly generic plot, but the story was enjoyable and was well implemented in the gameplay.

MGS1 was his best effort. Sure it only used cutscenes, but Kojima kept things simple, as if he knew what his limitations were.



I don't mind, I love a well developed story



twesterm said:
bbsin said:
jake_the_fake1 said:
Am I the only one looking forward to watching these movie like cut scenes?

Well being that the people that are bashing MGS4 based on the cutscenes alone are either really skeptical for MGS4, know for a fact that the cutscenes CAN be SKIPPED or don't even own a PS3 (and probably never will). I think it's safe to say the answer is NO, I for one enjoy the MGS cinematics (except in Twin Snakes when Snake was acting as a cyborg ninja) especially if they are supposed to answer all the questions.


Believe me, it's not because I'm already skeptical of MGS that I think 90 min cut scenes are crap. Any game with 90 minute cut scenes is just inexcusable and I'm not going to waste my time with it.

The fact that they can be skipped doesn't do much for me either because then I miss the story. Don't confuse the fact that I don't want to watch a full length movie while playing my game with I don't care about the story in the given game.


Well, being that you'll be upset if you skip the story, I'm assuming that you've also sat through the other MGS games when you had to sit through very lengthy cutscenes and codec conversations aswell? Being that Kojima is trying to end all the story arcs that deals with Solid Snake and Big Boss in this one game, how else do you (and Rocketpig) expect kojima to get it done? Should we expect a novel instead? I will agree with you that the cutscenes are far too long only if it's mainly filled with pointless crap scenes rather than explaination of WTF has been going on for the last decade. The worse part of all of this is that the same people that disagree with some of the high MGS4 reviews are eating this 90 minute cutsceneS claim like they've seen it for themselves. If people can sit through Lost Odyssey's 20 hours of cutscenes then MGS4 shouldn't be hard.



I just don't get why they didn't think to make any playable sequences in between, your saying there is nothing interactive worthy happening between those segments?

And even if you like the idea of 90 minute cut scenes then everyone would have been better off, with them spending more money and them making a better movie, then you could have a really refined pre-rendered film and see it on the big screen. Personally I'm a little annoyed at the length, although if it's all good stuff I don't mind, only and I stress ONLY if I could save my spot in the cutscene, only because I can rarely play more then 45 minutes to an hour, so this cutscene would never be seen in it's entirety by me. They also better let you rewatch scenes off a menu, I hate how many games don't have this option. Games with really good cutscenes, insane pivitol prerendered scenes, and they're totally gone once you pass them, it kills me. (Latest Culprits: Lost Odyessy, Mass Effect)



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Did someone say movie?



"Like you know"

rocketpig said:
Torillian said:
y'know though....some people really enjoy cut scenes and would prefer not to see them go extinct just because some of you guys deem it beneath you. Hell I watched tons of Xenosaga without playing, and I loved it.

The point isn't that they should go away, the point is that taking up half of an interactive game with them is unacceptable in this day and age. Technology has improved to the point where engine-based scenes that allow player interaction are becoming the norm and are actually moving the industry forward in ways that movies could never do.


On top of this it seems like a bizzare choice given what the theme of Metal Gear Solid 4 is supposed to be ...

If you're theme is "Free Will vs. Forced Control" you'd think that you'd use the interactive elements of your medium to offer people choice and (attempt) to control them rather than having Solid Snake debate to idea for 30 minutes.



rocketpig said:
Torillian said:
y'know though....some people really enjoy cut scenes and would prefer not to see them go extinct just because some of you guys deem it beneath you. Hell I watched tons of Xenosaga without playing, and I loved it.

The point isn't that they should go away, the point is that taking up half of an interactive game with them is unacceptable in this day and age. Technology has improved to the point where engine-based scenes that allow player interaction are becoming the norm and are actually moving the industry forward in ways that movies could never do.


 But what you find unacceptable, I'm actually looking forward to.  If you don't want a bunch of cutscenes in your games then I have no issue with that, and suggest you don't play MGS, but just because you can do something differently doesn't mean you should.  As long as there are people like me who look forward to these types of games and actually enjoy them, then there will be a market for these cutscene heavy games and you won't see them die off.

 

Hell I don't see this as much worse than your average RPG, and it'll probably have more involved gameplay than most turnbased RPG's. 



...

Torillian said:

Hell I don't see this as much worse than your average RPG, and it'll probably have more involved gameplay than most turnbased RPG's.


There is more to gameplay than the amount of time spent mashing the controller.  You know this right?



thats ridiculous