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Forums - Gaming - MGS4 to have 90 minute long cutscenes?

masterb8tr on 23 May 2008

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masterb8tr on 23 May 2008
rocketpig said:
Profcrab said:
rocketpig said:
I think my biggest disappointment with this is Kojma's desire to continue to make a game into a movie instead of blending the two a la Mass Effect. I don't mind cutscenes but developers need to learn to take advantage of the medium's strengths better. Instead of locking the player out of the story (like cinema does), welcome the player into the scene and give him/her options for movement, conversation, and manipulating the scene.

After all, the industry is referred to as interactive media, right?

In many ways, Japanese game designers seem to pursue the same line of reasoning as anime. They have an idea for a really far out there story and they do everything to make it work instead of modifying the story to make it work. Cutscenes are how they still push their story concept even when it wouldn't fit the gameplay of that game.

90 minutes sounds like an exaggeration but even 20 minutes is too long for a video game and I can easily see Kojima including cutscenes that are 20-30 minutes. I just think he is way too high on his own ideas and is suffering from the George Lucas problem where no one can tell him "No!". Think of all the extra work that could be done on the game that might have gone into cutscenes.


The George Lucas point is a valid one. Someone needs to hire an assitant with a hammer to follow both of them around and whack them in the head whenever they try to do something insanely stupid with a quality franchise.


does it matter to you anyways? i know you didnt like this game from the beginning so why do you care?



rocketpig on 23 May 2008
masterb8tr said:
rocketpig said:
Profcrab said:
rocketpig said:
I think my biggest disappointment with this is Kojma's desire to continue to make a game into a movie instead of blending the two a la Mass Effect. I don't mind cutscenes but developers need to learn to take advantage of the medium's strengths better. Instead of locking the player out of the story (like cinema does), welcome the player into the scene and give him/her options for movement, conversation, and manipulating the scene.

After all, the industry is referred to as interactive media, right?

In many ways, Japanese game designers seem to pursue the same line of reasoning as anime. They have an idea for a really far out there story and they do everything to make it work instead of modifying the story to make it work. Cutscenes are how they still push their story concept even when it wouldn't fit the gameplay of that game.

90 minutes sounds like an exaggeration but even 20 minutes is too long for a video game and I can easily see Kojima including cutscenes that are 20-30 minutes. I just think he is way too high on his own ideas and is suffering from the George Lucas problem where no one can tell him "No!". Think of all the extra work that could be done on the game that might have gone into cutscenes.


The George Lucas point is a valid one. Someone needs to hire an assitant with a hammer to follow both of them around and whack them in the head whenever they try to do something insanely stupid with a quality franchise.


does it matter to you anyways? i know you didnt like this game from the beginning so why do you care?

Not true. I loved MGS and if not for the controls would have really enjoyed MGS3, too.

I'm still hoping that Kojima learned something from MGS3. I'll know for sure in a few weeks. There is still a glimmer of hope with reports of the player being able to wander around during these obnoxiously long cutscenes.




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jake_the_fake1 on 23 May 2008
rocketpig said:
twesterm said:
bbsin said:
jake_the_fake1 said:
Am I the only one looking forward to watching these movie like cut scenes?

Well being that the people that are bashing MGS4 based on the cutscenes alone are either really skeptical for MGS4, know for a fact that the cutscenes CAN be SKIPPED or don't even own a PS3 (and probably never will). I think it's safe to say the answer is NO, I for one enjoy the MGS cinematics (except in Twin Snakes when Snake was acting as a cyborg ninja) especially if they are supposed to answer all the questions.


Believe me, it's not because I'm already skeptical of MGS that I think 90 min cut scenes are crap. Any game with 90 minute cut scenes is just inexcusable and I'm not going to waste my time with it.

The fact that they can be skipped doesn't do much for me either because then I miss the story. Don't confuse the fact that I don't want to watch a full length movie while playing my game with I don't care about the story in the given game.

Exactly. I'll watch the bloody things but if they're really 1+ hour long, I will be tearing my hair out by the end of them. Kojima really needs to learn to integrate his story better into the actual game instead of using a cutscene cop-out to explain a point he wasn't creative enough to do more subtlely.

 


 if this is the case, then perhaps this game isn't for you, just a thought.



TheBigFatJ on 23 May 2008
Profcrab said:

In many ways, Japanese game designers seem to pursue the same line of reasoning as anime. They have an idea for a really far out there story and they do everything to make it work instead of modifying the story to make it work. Cutscenes are how they still push their story concept even when it wouldn't fit the gameplay of that game.

90 minutes sounds like an exaggeration but even 20 minutes is too long for a video game and I can easily see Kojima including cutscenes that are 20-30 minutes. I just think he is way too high on his own ideas and is suffering from the George Lucas problem where no one can tell him "No!". Think of all the extra work that could be done on the game that might have gone into cutscenes.


This is partially a cultural issue.  In Japanese culture, you generally do not correct people who are in a position above you.  So, for example, a lower worker may know his boss has a fact wrong, but he will not correct his boss because it is improper to do so.  In America, this should not be the case (but sometimes is).

Kojima can say things his subordinates know are incorrect, or he can have ideas they know are bad.  But they wouldn't tell him these things, most likely, for cultural reasons. 

To put it bluntly, Kojima can't hold the jock of Bioware's janitor.

Kojima's ideas and methods may be obsolete compared to Bioware but this is just going to insult people who are fans of his.

It seems like most in this thread agree that 90 minute cut scenes are unacceptable.  As this is a site primarily filled with core/hardcore gamers, this doesn't bode very well for MGS4 as many people will just end up skipping the cut scenes.  Whether or not it will hurt sales is another question.



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masterb8tr on 23 May 2008
rocketpig said:
masterb8tr said:
rocketpig said:
Profcrab said:
rocketpig said:
I think my biggest disappointment with this is Kojma's desire to continue to make a game into a movie instead of blending the two a la Mass Effect. I don't mind cutscenes but developers need to learn to take advantage of the medium's strengths better. Instead of locking the player out of the story (like cinema does), welcome the player into the scene and give him/her options for movement, conversation, and manipulating the scene.

After all, the industry is referred to as interactive media, right?

In many ways, Japanese game designers seem to pursue the same line of reasoning as anime. They have an idea for a really far out there story and they do everything to make it work instead of modifying the story to make it work. Cutscenes are how they still push their story concept even when it wouldn't fit the gameplay of that game.

90 minutes sounds like an exaggeration but even 20 minutes is too long for a video game and I can easily see Kojima including cutscenes that are 20-30 minutes. I just think he is way too high on his own ideas and is suffering from the George Lucas problem where no one can tell him "No!". Think of all the extra work that could be done on the game that might have gone into cutscenes.


The George Lucas point is a valid one. Someone needs to hire an assitant with a hammer to follow both of them around and whack them in the head whenever they try to do something insanely stupid with a quality franchise.


does it matter to you anyways? i know you didnt like this game from the beginning so why do you care?

Not true. I loved MGS and if not for the controls would have really enjoyed MGS3, too.

I'm still hoping that Kojima learned something from MGS3. I'll know for sure in a few weeks. There is still a glimmer of hope with reports of the player being able to wander around during these obnoxiously long cutscenes.


 

well it seems like you're werent that positive even before this was announced...

 

THREAD: mgs review 96% 

"I just want to play the game so I can see how much I disagree with these scores (because inevitably, like everything else, I will). "



mesoteto on 23 May 2008
dabaus513 said:
Every last one of you are bitches. The mgs series is known for having lengthy cut scenes, its what its known for. Why would you think that this one would be any different? If you dont like long cut scenes maybe mgs isnt you series? The only people i see complaining here are people that were aready hard on the game to begin with.

hey easy there killer my quam with the game is very legit and i dont care for you calling me a female dog when i am most clearly a ninja racoon

 

 

also i dont ant to have to miss chuncks of a game that help flesh it out b/c they could take the time to make it a playable part of the experience....if i want to watch a movie and sit like a veggie i will just throw in 300

 

if i wat to playa game i will throw in a game...... 

 

 

 



 

rocketpig on 23 May 2008

I disagree with every score over 95% this generation... What would make MGS4 any different?




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HappySqurriel on 23 May 2008

Just to expand on my earlier point ...

If you watch a movie that is broken into 5 acts, with each act having a 30 second wall of text to help put what is happening into perspective there really isn't that big of a problem; and if it is well done it can be an interesting style choice. At the same time, if this movie ends up having 5 acts, with each act having 30 minute walls of text you're going to start wondering 'WTF' the director was thinking regardless of the quality of implementation.

Its about scale and choosing the right medium to tell your story ...

If there really are hour long cutscenes it suggests to me that maybe Kojima should stop making games and start making Anime mini-series because it seems more appropriate to his storytelling style.



dabaus513 on 23 May 2008

All of you bitches can shut up now. Just like djmiester said, sensationalism and exageration.

http://boards.1up.com/zd/board/message?board.id=games&thread.id=717624