So you didn't really pay attention to my arguments then, and you aren't paying attention now. You're just making assumptions based on what you want me to be saying.

The funny thing is this ps3 vs 360 war is actually irrelevant. As both consoles will get the same games for the rest of this gen.

Its pretty clear now that microsoft is gunning for profitability, they should have dropped the US price of the console a long time ago and they haven't (couple this with the US's economic problems which is forcing them down that path aswell). What GTA, Halo, Gears etc has shown is that the 360's price can remain high and it will still sell well when the right games are released.

BTW microsoft has already spent its money on RROD. Its not an ongoing expense, so please don't treat it as such.

If you want to bash something, you ignore logic. 

Imperial said: LordTheNightKnight said: BMaker11 said: LordTheNightKnight said: DOATS1 said: Slimebeast said: Only a rabid fanboy would call the X360 "sinking" when the truth is that the X360 has increased a whopping 40% in world-wide sales in 2008 compared to 2007. libellule this was a very unneccessary thread. .....well are you going to mention ps3's or wii's increase? or did you forget to pick those cherries?   But no one was claiming they were sinking. We know those systems increased their sales. The point is that so did the 360. It's all relative though. Relative to itsself, it's doing great, but relative to the PS3 and Wii, it's sinking. It still has healthy sells, there's no doubting that, it's just that in terms of month-to-month sales, it's in last place amongst the 3. And when you were once in the lead, this situation is called sinking (in THIS generation. Don't try and pull a "since the PS2 was on top, the PS3 must be sinking" or something along those lines) No. Sinking means a negative. Relativity makes positives look bigger or smaller, but it does not inverse them. So that is just bull. The 360 is making money now, unlike the Xbox, and according to this week's hardware sales, the 360 is still selling about 250k worldwide, which is mcuh better than it has been doing the past few weeks. Those are not sinking, even from a reletive point of view. Depends on what criteria your judging , in respect to the 360's performance against [itself] it's not sinking , it's showing a steady improvment . In respect to it's performance against the PS3/Wii it is actualy [sinking] , it is no longer outselling the Wii neither is it outselling the PS3 anymore ( in terms of hardware ) therfore in comparison to where it was and where it is now it is indeed (negativley) sinking. Microsoft are also far from recouping the cost's of the 360 , RROD , Buying exclusives , 10/10 reviews , Halo 3 advertising , GTA IV DLC and the list goes on.....

The 360 is not making money.  The 360 was MOVED for accounting purposes into the 'Entertainment and Devices" division starting FY08.  That means every time Microsoft sells a mouse, keyboard, remote control, etc THAT makes a profit for that division.  We can guess how much profit the 360 contributes to the "Entertainment and Devices" division but you CAN NOT say the the 360 made 532M in the first 9 months of FY08!! Microsoft sells a ton of Mice, keyboards etc and they mae lots of money doing that....

Please stop posting this 532M profit CRAP for 360! It is NOT true!

Sheesh!

jkimball said: Imperial said: LordTheNightKnight said: BMaker11 said: LordTheNightKnight said: DOATS1 said: Slimebeast said: Only a rabid fanboy would call the X360 "sinking" when the truth is that the X360 has increased a whopping 40% in world-wide sales in 2008 compared to 2007. libellule this was a very unneccessary thread. .....well are you going to mention ps3's or wii's increase? or did you forget to pick those cherries?   But no one was claiming they were sinking. We know those systems increased their sales. The point is that so did the 360. It's all relative though. Relative to itsself, it's doing great, but relative to the PS3 and Wii, it's sinking. It still has healthy sells, there's no doubting that, it's just that in terms of month-to-month sales, it's in last place amongst the 3. And when you were once in the lead, this situation is called sinking (in THIS generation. Don't try and pull a "since the PS2 was on top, the PS3 must be sinking" or something along those lines) No. Sinking means a negative. Relativity makes positives look bigger or smaller, but it does not inverse them. So that is just bull. The 360 is making money now, unlike the Xbox, and according to this week's hardware sales, the 360 is still selling about 250k worldwide, which is mcuh better than it has been doing the past few weeks. Those are not sinking, even from a reletive point of view. Depends on what criteria your judging , in respect to the 360's performance against [itself] it's not sinking , it's showing a steady improvment . In respect to it's performance against the PS3/Wii it is actualy [sinking] , it is no longer outselling the Wii neither is it outselling the PS3 anymore ( in terms of hardware ) therfore in comparison to where it was and where it is now it is indeed (negativley) sinking. Microsoft are also far from recouping the cost's of the 360 , RROD , Buying exclusives , 10/10 reviews , Halo 3 advertising , GTA IV DLC and the list goes on..... The 360 is not making money.  The 360 was MOVED for accounting purposes into the 'Entertainment and Devices" division starting FY08.  That means every time Microsoft sells a mouse, keyboard, remote control, etc THAT makes a profit for that division.  We can guess how much profit the 360 contributes to the "Entertainment and Devices" division but you CAN NOT say the the 360 made 532M in the first 9 months of FY08!! Microsoft sells a ton of Mice, keyboards etc and they mae lots of money doing that....   Please stop posting this 532M profit CRAP for 360! It is NOT true!   Sheesh!

Direct Link to MSFT most recent quartlery report

 http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/789019/000119312508089362/d10q.htm#toc46020_1

Direct quote from linked document;

"Operating income declined during the three months ended March 31, 2008, driven primarily by increased costs for legal settlements and legal contingencies, increased headcount-related expenses, and increased cost of revenue (data center and online costs, costs associated with the growth in consulting services, and Xbox 360 product costs reflecting increased Xbox 360 console sales, partially offset by decreased Xbox 360 manufacturing costs per console). "

So they sold MORE306's which caused their income to DECLINE.  The DECLINE (loss on 360 sales) as partially offset by cheaper manaufacturing. NOT fully offset.  They lose money on each 360 sold...

I'm not sure if I buy any kind of collapse of 360 at this point. If it was going to die it would have last summer when Microsoft admitted the RRoD issue. The hardware is becoming more and more reliable now, with the new GPU this fall the problem should be gone going forward.

As for studios I call BS. One could argue that owned studios have little reason to come up with innovative ideas since their financing is secure. Third party contracted studios to create first party games like Bungie and Remedy have way more incentive to be creative and innovative.

Also, I think that the blu-ray win is huge for PS3 but we aren't seeing too much of a win because of it. 360 is not outselling PS3, but we are seeing 360 sales continue to grow, and the user base continues to buy games at the highest attach rate which is the most important thing of all.

As long as 3rd party support stays, Microsoft keeps on bringing out new games at the same rate as Sony with great quality, and the 360 users continue to buy games, the 360 is not "sinking" at all.

There is no reason that all 3 players in this generation cannot be sucessful. All are proving that to be true.

"The 360 was MOVED for accounting purposes into the 'Entertainment and Devices" division starting FY08."

It was there well before, at least as early as the of '06, when the Zune launched.

PS3 has increased by 400% upon last year.

Wii has increased by 80% upon last year.

360 has increased by 60% upon last year

All consoles have improved upon last year. Industry growth confirmed. 

i hardly think sinking is an appropriate term to discribe the 360's 2008 ventures, its losing ground to the PS3 because the PS3 has more appeal for gamers, with blu-ray and games like Gran Turismo, Metal Gear Solid 4 and GTA4. The 360 is hardly sinking though, it will probably sill be ahead of the PS3 at the end of 2008, i think its good that both sony and microsoft will have similar market share this gen, it should encourage them both to bring new features and better games out, this will benefit owners of both consoles, and people like me who own a PS3 and a 360.