Esmoreit said: OT, don't forget, there are different levels of innovation: I do still rate the PS3 on a modular level (new component type, new storage type but doesn't alter the way we think about the product itself) And the Wii definatly in architectural. I base this on the assumption that we already have seen the components within the Wii, including motion tracking. But it ranks high on how we now percieve the console as a product. The consumer now not only sees it to play games, but also to socialize or to get fit.

This is very interesting. It looks like there's a difference between the meaning of "innovation" in everyday speech and professional jargon, much like the confusion some people have on how strong a "theory" is in the discussion about evolution. Also, I've been talking out of my ass again. =P  

Mind elaborating the difference between architectural and component knowledge a bit? 

Sony has been in the console market for nearly 13 years now. MS has been in it for nearly 7.

Neither company has done much for the industry in terms of actual hardware. It's been a steady progression of higher-powered hardware with few actual changes made beyond that point. Absolutely nothing innovative going on there, just a refinement of what was already there.

As far as software goes, MS has Xbox Live in their corner, a truly innovative system for consoles and one that is being copied by both Nintendo and Sony in one way, shape, or form. In Sony's corner, you have a new way of doing business. One that involves utmost cooperation with developers and initially, they catered to these developers with an easy-to-use system. They later scrapped that idea and that's too bad.

Really, neither company has innovated much but when it actually comes to the console itself, I don't see how MS can't be considered a little more innovative with XBL, something that truly changed the way the entire industry plays games, works, and develops for consoles. And they did it in half the time.

Dallinor said: in·no·vate 1. to introduce something new; make changes in anything established. I'm not sure many of you really grasp the definition of innovation.

This the best point of the whole thread. The actual definition of innovate. Then we must remember that this is innovation as it pertains to gaming, not general innovation.

No one would disagree that Nintendo has had the biggest innovation this generation (and arguably has always had the best innovations for every generation they were there).

As for Sony and bluray...sorry this is not innovating gaming in any way. All you have is a larger storage. That's not innovative, just general progress. If it were a solid state device with similar storage and thus giving us a much better medium due to it being faster and much more durable, then that would be innovative. But just giving us a new disc format that holds more....meh.

Same with MS. Nothing really innovative this gen. Xbox had the online and Live last gen, probably the most innovative thing last gen (the one time I think Nintendo was beat in the innovative realm for a gen).

rocketpig said: Sony has been in the console market for nearly 13 years now. MS has been in it for nearly 7. Neither company has done much for the industry in terms of actual hardware. It's been a steady progression of higher-powered hardware with few actual changes made beyond that point. Absolutely nothing innovative going on there, just a refinement of what was already there. As far as software goes, MS has Xbox Live in their corner, a truly innovative system for consoles and one that is being copied by both Nintendo and Sony in one way, shape, or form. In Sony's corner, you have a new way of doing business. One that involves utmost cooperation with developers and initially, they catered to these developers with an easy-to-use system. They later scrapped that idea and that's too bad. Really, neither company has innovated much but when it actually comes to the console itself, I don't see how MS can't be considered a little more innovative with XBL, something that truly changed the way the entire industry plays games, works, and develops for consoles. And they did it in half the time.

And they did it when the time was right.

BMaker11 said: Squilliam said: Rock_on_2008 said: Sony invented Blu-Ray format. PS3 provides brilliant gaming experience with Blu-Ray player, full HD resolution in games, multimedia and internet all combined in the most technologically advanced gaming console. Nintendo invented Wii remote motion control. Nintendo Wii provides a fun, interactive gaming experience with 3D motion control interfaced with every Wii game providing a unique and fun gaming experience.   Discuss this topic people both Sony and Nintendo are innovators of this console generation.   BTW: Apologies if it is a very simplistic approach, I know I have left a lot of information out.   Dude you're smoking crack! The PS3 is probably the least innovative and slightly behind the Xbox360 at that. Xbox360 added achievements, thats enough for me to put it above the PS3 - which innovated precisely nothing. PS3 added... What? It doesnt even do full HD and so far it renders at the same or a lower resolution than the Xbox360. Some innovation you got there. Maybe you're thinking about the creativity of its fanboys? That's not an innovation, because all achievements are are a little blip at the bottom of the screen saying that you did something. You can do it on PS3 games, and if they're on the Wii, you can do it on Wii games. You just won't get that blip on the screen. This is why I believe that some people are kind fo dumb when they use achievements as a reason that the 360 version of a game is superior. "GTA is better because it has achievements!" "Burnout Paradise may have had the edge on the PS3, but achievements make it better on the 360" "When it comes down to multiplatform games, I'll pick the 360 version for the achievements!" Even though in all the games you can do whatever the achievements are on other platforms. For example, with GTA you get an achievement called "Mild Coffee" when you first go in Michelle's house. Is that really a reason to get the 360 version when you can do the EXACT same thing on the PS3 version?

You use a bad example to show the fun of aiming for achievements. There's another acheivement you get in GTA IV if you survive over 5 miniutes on a 6 star Wanted level. Now on the PS3 version you would have no incentive to even aim for it, and no one would know it if you had accomplished something like that. There's also another Achievement you get if you defeat a Rockstar developer in multiplayer. Sure you could do that on PS3, but you may not even know you're facing them. Achievements are the spiritual successor of the high score. Tell me, if meaningless achievements have no effect than why would people play games like Space Invaders, Galaga and Pacman? All they give you is a numbered achievement and nothing but.

 

^because people these days don't play Space Invaders, Galaga or Pacman?

Parokki said: Esmoreit said: OT, don't forget, there are different levels of innovation: I do still rate the PS3 on a modular level (new component type, new storage type but doesn't alter the way we think about the product itself) And the Wii definatly in architectural. I base this on the assumption that we already have seen the components within the Wii, including motion tracking. But it ranks high on how we now percieve the console as a product. The consumer now not only sees it to play games, but also to socialize or to get fit. This is very interesting. It looks like there's a difference between the meaning of "innovation" in everyday speech and professional jargon, much like the confusion some people have on how strong a "theory" is in the discussion about evolution. Also, I've been talking out of my ass again. =P   Mind elaborating the difference between architectural and component knowledge a bit?

To be honest, I was on my work when typing that up, recaling it from technological and innovation studies last year... and to give a precise explanation I'll have to check my book which i'll do tomorrow so I might edit te below quote (don't sleep at home tonight):

 Component innovation means just that. A company decides to improve the components in their product for instance, or make it perform more efficient. Or get's the same result with less components, just to name some examples.

 Architectural, if I recall correctly has an effect on how the innovation makes us percieve the product itself, or how we use it. The wii manages (to my knowledge at least) make us see that we can do more with a computer and with gaming - or better, with interactive entertainment. If you have an architectural innovation with new components... well, now we are getting in the realm of the steam-engine, the PC or the airplane. 

Magnific0 said: ^because people these days don't play Space Invaders, Galaga or Pacman?

Fair enough. Replace those with Geometry Wars. You think people play that game for the awesome and epic ending sequence that is sure to pull you heart strings or do you think it's to acquire a high score?

 

NYANKS said: You know its funny, the Wiimote might not be possible if not for technological innovations from companies like Sony. And innovation doesn't necessarily mean progress.

Actually we're fairly certain that the relatively old technology behind the Wiimote has nothing to do with Sony in anyway shape or form.

More likely its likely to assume that the Sony or MS couldn't feature what few innovations they've brought without Nintendo or Sega having paved the path for them.

Either way its highly subjective and in the end you can only gauge it based on console affect on the market.

Rock_on_2008 said: Sony innovated Blu-Ray in the PS3 bringing the best graphics in video games in full 1080p true high resolution. Excellent Cell technology used in PS3 producing the best graphics that look real.

How is putting Blu-Ray in PS3 innovation?  As someone mentioned PS had CD, PS2 had DVD.  Of course PS3 was going to have the next media format especially as it was absolutely necessary to trojan horse Blu-Ray into PS3 so as to see of HD-DVD. 

And improving graphics is not innovation.  Each generation has seen hugely improved graphics (although Nintendo rightly decided not to do down that path this time around).  There is also no evidence to show that the PS3's graphics are so widely superior to that of 360 for it to be classed in the same category as a new revolutionary control method.

 Conclusion:  Sony has innovated nothing.