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Forums - General - huh, I just realized a very effective and oft used online debate method...

The_vagabond7 on 27 April 2008

By ignoring points in an argument that are valid, and focusing only on ones you are able to contest you can draw an otherwise lost fight on for ages so that it looks like your point has merit. It's so simple, but it just hit me.

 

If say someone says "This is stupid" and you retort

"not that isn't stupid for reasons A, B, and further more C"

the other person can simply reply "C is wrong because of D, and E!" to which you come back with

"D and E are dodgy at best because of F"

 

Now you are left to continue trying contesting E and D, for god knows how long to justify C even though A and B initially make the rest of the alphebet a moot point. It's very easy to fall into if you're not careful. It's a forehead slapping moment for me.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

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kingofwale on 27 April 2008

I thought this is actually more COMMONLY used by a selective few (who shall remain nameless)

Person one: This is why I think this game is great/bad
Person two: Why do you post here? you are such a fanboy, stop trolling.


Heck, you don't even have to think of a retort or stick to the topic. Even 4 yr old can use it.



Soriku (Feb 10/08): In 5 years the PS3/360 will be dead.

KH3 bet: "If KH3 comes to Wii exclusive, I will take a 1 month of sig/avatar by otheres open a thread apologize and praise you guys' brilliance." http://vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?start=50&id=18379
Original cast: Badonkadonkhr, sc94597 allaboutthegames885, kingofwale, Soriku, ctk495, skeezer, RDBRaptor, Mirson,

Episode 1: OOPSY!
selnor: Too Human I even expect 3-4 mill entire life and 500,000 first day. GoW2 ( expect 7 - 9 million entire life and over 2 mill first day), Fable 2 (expect 5-6 million entire life and 1.5 mill fist day) BK3 (expect 4 - 5 mill sales entire life and 1 mill first day).. Tales/IU/TLR should get to 2 or 3 million! post id: 868878
Episode 2:
Letsdance: FFXIII (PS3+360) first week in NA = 286K
According to pre-order rate in week 13 (post id: 2902544)
The_vagabond7 on 27 April 2008

er...that's not exactly an example of what I was talking about. That's just derailing the topic.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

kingofwale on 27 April 2008
The_vagabond7 said:
er...that's not exactly an example of what I was talking about. That's just derailing the topic.

 you don't get it, do you, that's exactly what you were talking about... by bringing something up, you successfully derails the original argument. :P



Soriku (Feb 10/08): In 5 years the PS3/360 will be dead.

KH3 bet: "If KH3 comes to Wii exclusive, I will take a 1 month of sig/avatar by otheres open a thread apologize and praise you guys' brilliance." http://vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?start=50&id=18379
Original cast: Badonkadonkhr, sc94597 allaboutthegames885, kingofwale, Soriku, ctk495, skeezer, RDBRaptor, Mirson,

Episode 1: OOPSY!
selnor: Too Human I even expect 3-4 mill entire life and 500,000 first day. GoW2 ( expect 7 - 9 million entire life and over 2 mill first day), Fable 2 (expect 5-6 million entire life and 1.5 mill fist day) BK3 (expect 4 - 5 mill sales entire life and 1 mill first day).. Tales/IU/TLR should get to 2 or 3 million! post id: 868878
Episode 2:
Letsdance: FFXIII (PS3+360) first week in NA = 286K
According to pre-order rate in week 13 (post id: 2902544)
The_vagabond7 on 27 April 2008

umm...the thing is, in my example they didn't bring anything up. They just picked one point they were able to argue with, and ignore the rest of the argument that they could not contest. It was still on topic, they just narrowed the topic to one thing that they could fight, when the argument taken as a whole proves them wrong.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

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kingofwale on 27 April 2008
The_vagabond7 said:
umm...the thing is, in my example they didn't bring anything up. They just picked one point they were able to argue with, and ignore the rest of the argument that they could not contest. It was still on topic, they just narrowed the topic to one thing that they could fight, when the argument taken as a whole proves them wrong.

 I suppose that's why people don't write essays when they post, so others can't 'nitpick' what they say outside the person's main point.



Soriku (Feb 10/08): In 5 years the PS3/360 will be dead.

KH3 bet: "If KH3 comes to Wii exclusive, I will take a 1 month of sig/avatar by otheres open a thread apologize and praise you guys' brilliance." http://vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?start=50&id=18379
Original cast: Badonkadonkhr, sc94597 allaboutthegames885, kingofwale, Soriku, ctk495, skeezer, RDBRaptor, Mirson,

Episode 1: OOPSY!
selnor: Too Human I even expect 3-4 mill entire life and 500,000 first day. GoW2 ( expect 7 - 9 million entire life and over 2 mill first day), Fable 2 (expect 5-6 million entire life and 1.5 mill fist day) BK3 (expect 4 - 5 mill sales entire life and 1 mill first day).. Tales/IU/TLR should get to 2 or 3 million! post id: 868878
Episode 2:
Letsdance: FFXIII (PS3+360) first week in NA = 286K
According to pre-order rate in week 13 (post id: 2902544)
tarheel91 on 27 April 2008

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent (for example, deliberately overstating the opponent's position).[1] A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it carries little or no real evidential weight, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.[2]

Wikipedia beat you to it...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarecrow_argument



blaydcor on 27 April 2008

I disagree with your post, because, first, your logic is too simplistic, second because you have a Clockwork orange, and lastly because it's not exciting to read.



Crusty VGchartz old timer who sporadically returns & posts. Let's debate nebulous shit and expand our perpectives. Or whatever.

blaydcor on 27 April 2008
kingofwale said:
I thought this is actually more COMMONLY used by a selective few (who shall remain nameless)

Person one: This is why I think this game is great/bad
Person two: Why do you post here? you are such a fanboy, stop trolling.


Heck, you don't even have to think of a retort or stick to the topic. Even 4 yr old can use it.
 That's the SSJ12 special 

 



Crusty VGchartz old timer who sporadically returns & posts. Let's debate nebulous shit and expand our perpectives. Or whatever.