Viper1 said: Words Of Wisdom said: There's something wrong with comparing current numbers to LTD numbers... Out of all of them, the 360 vs Xbox comparison seems the most favorable followed by the Wii vs GC. The PS2 vs PS3 one though...   Obviously it's unfair as a means of directly comparing just based on numbers but when you take in install base and shelf life, you can see how well it's doing relative to the last generation.   We can see Wii and X360 are stomping on last gen sales even though they've not been out for as long as the last gen consoles were.  Some PS3 titles show they are still selling very well compared to last gen in spite fo the install base discrepency.

At this point I honestly don't believe the install base matters as much as people believe.  Even with an enormous install base, we're still seeing a majority of <10m sales across the board for the PS2.

WoW, correct. As a ratio of install base to software sales, compared to the big games on GC and Xbox, it's very, very low. My point that it still plays a roll when you combine it with how long the console has been out. Combined they give a game a far greater chance at reaching higher sales than if the units were out only a year with a few million install base.



What games surprise you guys the most?

Words Of Wisdom said: Viper1 said: Words Of Wisdom said: There's something wrong with comparing current numbers to LTD numbers... Out of all of them, the 360 vs Xbox comparison seems the most favorable followed by the Wii vs GC. The PS2 vs PS3 one though...   Obviously it's unfair as a means of directly comparing just based on numbers but when you take in install base and shelf life, you can see how well it's doing relative to the last generation.   We can see Wii and X360 are stomping on last gen sales even though they've not been out for as long as the last gen consoles were.  Some PS3 titles show they are still selling very well compared to last gen in spite fo the install base discrepency. At this point I honestly don't believe the install base matters as much as people believe.  Even with an enormous install base, we're still seeing a majority of <10m sales across the board for the PS2.

Your saying a 130 million install base vs a 12 million install base doesnt matter? With the games still selling?

leo-j said: Words Of Wisdom said: Viper1 said: Words Of Wisdom said: There's something wrong with comparing current numbers to LTD numbers... Out of all of them, the 360 vs Xbox comparison seems the most favorable followed by the Wii vs GC. The PS2 vs PS3 one though...   Obviously it's unfair as a means of directly comparing just based on numbers but when you take in install base and shelf life, you can see how well it's doing relative to the last generation.   We can see Wii and X360 are stomping on last gen sales even though they've not been out for as long as the last gen consoles were.  Some PS3 titles show they are still selling very well compared to last gen in spite fo the install base discrepency. At this point I honestly don't believe the install base matters as much as people believe.  Even with an enormous install base, we're still seeing a majority of <10m sales across the board for the PS2. Your saying a 130 million install base vs a 12 million install base doesnt matter? With the games still selling?

Leave it to leo-j to completely miss the point.  

Okay let's take this slowly.  According VGC, the PS2 hasn't hit 130m yet.  In fact VGC has it just under 118m.  Already you're exaggerating.

And my point is quite honestly this:  If you have an install base is anywhere between 5 and 6 times that of your competitors, why are the game sales not reflecting those multipliers.   According to VGC, the highest selling game on the PS2 had 15.44m sales with nothing over 10m if you cut out the top 4 which then drops to 8.89m.  The highest selling game on the GC and XB were 7.08m and 8.45m respectively. 

The PS2 has about 5~6 times as much hardware out there as the Gamecube so why is it that its titles don't reflect that?  If the highest selling GC game is 7.08m, why don't we see PS2 games selling in quantities greater than 40m?

Because of the more diversified userbase?

JGarret said: Because of the more diversified userbase?

We'd be seeing high numbers across the board if that were the case and we're not.  

WoW is correct. If it were that diversified, we'd have a dozen or more games at 15 million but we don't. I can understand a game having a high attach ratio if it plays to the strength of the install base (Halo 2) but to have the PS2 with titles that don't even double the amount sold (8.5 million x 2) with such a massive difference in install base (24 million to 115 million) should raise an eyebrow or two.

Thanks for the post Viper1

 The disconnect between hardware and software is an interesting finding. While understanding the reasons behind it would need surveys on owners demographics, consoles failure rates data, the fact is what ultimately matters is software sales. (primarily because hardware is typically sold at a loss or at cost+)

So perhaps Vgchartz should also put up on its front page the cumulative software sales for each system.

 

Cheers

-lance 

I think it is important to note that the PS2 was the casual machine of the last generation, and I think the large userbase vs. sales across all platforms, very much reflects this.
Especially because you have the Xbox and the GC with some big hitting games, I think it's easier to say that those two were the 'hardcore' machines of last gen

Isn't this method kinda flawed since some franchises (like NFS) are declining (both in sales AND quality) and this has nothing to do with the console it's on?