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Forums - Nintendo - A correction is posted, but the damage is done

More proof that gaming journalists and analysts do neither.



There is no such thing as a console war. This is the first step to game design.

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No More Heores on another system would probably have done just as well as killer7.



windbane said:
mesoteto said:
@windbane---High Voltage and wii ware say hi

uhh...yeah...wii ware, that service that is trying to play catch up to the PSN and Live? ok.

ROFL--good one .....regardless of that it still offers the best option for small house 3rd parties to get on a system b/c its cheaper to use....not to mention they have had nothing but studio after studio sign up to get stuff on there....so third party support argument is null void from this alone
 

 

funnest looking small game yet

 



 

Stop whining about this anti-Wii week.

PS3 fans have had an anti-PS3 year or two. Grow some thicker skin.



mesoteto said:
windbane said:
mesoteto said:
@windbane---High Voltage and wii ware say hi

uhh...yeah...wii ware, that service that is trying to play catch up to the PSN and Live? ok.

ROFL--good one .....regardless of that it still offers the best option for small house 3rd parties to get on a system b/c its cheaper to use....not to mention they have had nothing but studio after studio sign up to get stuff on there....so third party support argument is null void from this alone

 


Yeah, and Home is going to dominate the world...oh wait, it's not out yet! We'll see what kind of games actually come out from Wii Ware. There are a ton of great games for PSN and Live already.



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DMeisterJ said:
Stop whining about this anti-Wii week.

PS3 fans have had an anti-PS3 year or two. Grow some thicker skin.

Well the PS3 is doing pretty badly, definitely much worse than anyone was expecting, and I'm not even going to start with Sony's legendary PR bloopers. Any news coverage is going to be "anti-PS3" from a fan's perspective.

The case here, on the other hand, is that NY Times published a single article that might have used VGC data, but completely misread it, and did some truly horrifying errors in logic. The following week seems to consist of the entire internet gleefully chanting "I told you so!" in a feeble attempt to make it real. 

How the heck do you not get angry at that? 



Parokki said:
DMeisterJ said:
Stop whining about this anti-Wii week.

PS3 fans have had an anti-PS3 year or two. Grow some thicker skin.

Well the PS3 is doing pretty badly, definitely much worse than anyone was expecting, and I'm not even going to start with Sony's legendary PR bloopers. Any news coverage is going to be "anti-PS3" from a fan's perspective.

The case here, on the other hand, is that NY Times published a single article that might have used VGC data, but completely misread it, and did some truly horrifying errors in logic. The following week seems to consist of the entire internet gleefully chanting "I told you so!" in a feeble attempt to make it real. 

How the heck do you not get angry at that? 


The entirety of last year consisted of news outlets and non-Sony fanboys spouting that the PS3 would be dead very soon. The press for the PS3 has been very positive lately since Blu-Ray won. These articles aren't wrong in their main ideas.



except for third party support...what was that game that was pretty big coming to the wii it sounded like Bunster Funter or something like that



 

Why use Nintendo`s Financial Reports when you can just post some an outdated wikipedia link using the same numbers? Like that was not enough, he reports all the numbers wrong. Its his own link just click it and see.

his numbers

1. Wii Sports (17.85 million)
2. Wii Play (9.23 million)
3. Super Mario Galaxy (5.19 million)
4. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (4.463 million)
5. Mario Party 8 (4.35 million)
6. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (4.3 million)
7. Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (3.4 million)
8. Super Paper Mario (2.16 million)
9. Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree (2 million)
10. Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (2 million)

Nintendo/wikipedia

# Wii Sports (21.56 million)
# Wii Play (11.51 million)
# Super Mario Galaxy (6.1 million)
# Mario Party 8 (4.86 million)
# Super Smash Bros. Brawl (4.85 million)
# The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (4.52 million)
# Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (3.4 million)
# Super Paper Mario (2.28 million)
# Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree (2.26 million)
# Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (2 million)



Satan said:

"You are for ever angry, all you care about is intelligence, but I repeat again that I would give away all this superstellar life, all the ranks and honours, simply to be transformed into the soul of a merchant's wife weighing eighteen stone and set candles at God's shrine."

windbane said:
I know my comments will be lost in a sea of fanboyism here, but here I go anyway...

The article from joystiq is correct. He is not bashing the Wii, he is saying that the majority of 3rd party games are casual games. Carnival games, Mario and Sonic (and uh, Mario in title), Guitar Hero (which sold better on 360 and PS2 and sold over 1 million on PS3), RRR 1, RRR 2. Red Steel is one exception but that was not onl a launch game but a game that was hyped because of the sword combat. I think the lesson was learned on that game.

RE4 and RE:UC sold well, but RE5 won't be on the Wii. RE6 won't be on the Wii, either. I expect RE:UC 2 to appear on the Wii since there are 3 other RE games to cover.

Someone can remind me of the others, but there are 11 third party games so far that have sold 1 million. Despite the Wii's great success, that is only 4 more than the PS3. I actually thought it would be a larger margin considering the PS3 took awhile to get going. MGS4 and GTA4 will quickly join the PS3 list.

Right away I know the response: the Wii is still ahead! Yes, but then you look at the 360, which has 26 third party 1 million sellers! Some of those were during the year before the Wii and PS3, but most aren't. Considering most third party games are multiplatform, the PS3 and 360 are going to remain more attractive for developers' best teams and the Wii will continue to get party games and spinoffs.

I don't think joystiq was attacking anything like a lot of you seem to think. It's just the reality of the situation. Z&W wasn't a good example because adventure games aren't fun (ok, so that's just my opinion), but No More Heroes would definitely have sold better if it was on another console. I know Killer 7 wasn't the best seller, but No More Heroes was less abstract. It would have impressed more in HD and would appeal to the non-nintendo hardcore games fans.

Last year, Wii fans couldn't get enough of the press. Any time Wii Fit is mentioned on Good Morning America there's a thread about it. People like exercise. My girlfriend wants Wii Fit. That doesn't mean she's going to play Brawl, though. There's a reason so many people are doubting the Wii's third party support, and it's not some conspiracy.

I'm all for great games on the Wii, and I think No More Heroes was awesome for its boss battles, but the majority of major third party franchises are not going to be on the Wii.

 Obviously, I disagree with you about the accuracy of the article, and I'm afraid nothing you've said has convinced me otherwise (although I do appreciate your taking the time to list your reasons). To begin with, I don't actually see where in the article he claims that most third-party games are "casual." He certainly claims that Nintendo is leaning further in that direction than before, but when addressing third party games he says only that "well-reviewed 3rd-party games, like Zack & Wiki and No More Heroes, typically perform poorly on the system. This makes perfect sense considering the schema of Wii owners that we're assuming, as these games don't fit into either the casual gamer or Nintendo loyalist profile." In short, his argument is the precise opposite of what you thought it was.

I would also direct your attention to the "schema of Wii owners that we're assuming" line.  With this, the author is freely conceding that he is drawing his conclusion not upon any actual data, but upon his own assumptions, assumptions which I believe the successes of more traditional games like Brawl, the Resident Evils, Sonic, and many more show. Feel free to browse the list of top-selling Wii games, availabe here on this site.

http://vgchartz.com/games/index.php?name=&console=Wii&publisher=&genre=&keyword=&order=Sales 

You will find that while "casual" games are indeed disproportionately present, they're far from being the lion's share. Unless, of course, you count all Nintendo games as inherently "casual." If so, I have nothing more to say to you, because it is obvious that we're using radically different definitions of terms and will thus be talking past one another.

You also add that the Wii has only four more third-party platinum games than the PlayStation 3, despite its higher install base. I concede this point. However, I believe you are drawing the wrong conclusion from the data. A brief examination of the PS3's third-party million is here.

http://vgchartz.com/games/index.php?name=&console=PS3&publisher=&genre=&keyword=&order=Sales

With the exceptions of the two games the PS3 shares with the Wii, Pro Evolution Soccer and Guitar Hero III, you will notice that each and every last one of those games was made by the best teams their respective developers could muster, and had far more funding than their Wii counterparts. Indeed, while third parties are spending tens of millions of dollars when developing PS3 and 360 games, they usually commit one-half to one-third of that on the Wii.

From http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18389 , "(A)n Ubisoft executive gave a breakdown of the company's average development costs per game - not often discussed in public - with...PS3/Xbox 360/PC titles averaging 12 million to 18 million euros ($18.8m-$28.2m) to create for all 3 SKUs, and a Wii game expected to cost 5 million to 6 million euros ($7.8-$9m) to develop.

In other words, they're putting much less time, talent, and energy into the Wii so far. And yet their games continue to sell. Indeed, Umbrella Chronicles was given to some no-name studio by Capcom, but its already oversold even their modest expectations. Sonic and the Secret Rings on the Wii got outsourced to a "B team", and had a small budget, while Sonic the Hedgehog for the 360/PS3 was developed internally by the Sonic Team, who were equipped with all the money they wanted. Ironically, the former outperformed the latter, which may be why the rumors that the newest Sonic game has the Wii as its lead platform...

Imagine what we'll see in the next year, when some more third parties start learning that the Wii is receptive to good games? Actually, some of them already have. It's heavily rumored that Red Steel 2 was scrapped by Ubisoft, not because they didn't think it would sell, but because they were dissatisfied with its direction, and wanted it to be stellar. So I would agree with your assertion that for Ubisoft the "lesson was learned", as you put it. It's just not the one you want it to be.

Finally, your belief that No More Heroes would have done much better on the PS3 or 360: really? No, I mean it, really? Suda 51 has taken plenty of bites at the apple, including the almighty PS2. He's made plenty of games besides Killer 7 during his two decades in the industry. No More Heroes is the first game he's made that can really be considered a commercial success. I understand that you would prefer to have seen it on another console, and I'm sure plenty of other folks would have too. But until I see something more than anecdotal evidence that No More Heroes would have done better on another platform, I will remain skeptical, because as fine a game as it was it was not a radical departure from his trademark style. I'm sure you can scrape up some forum posters claiming that they would have bought it had it come out on the 360 or PS3. You can also find forum posters who think Elvis is alive, Bigfoot is real, and Bush personally hijacked and flew all of the 9/11 planes. Draw your own conclusions.

I doubt I've said anything to change your mind, and I'm sure that despite all the good third party games that have been launched on the Wii over the last six months, and which will continue to arrive at a steady pace, you still believe that the Wii is somehow bad for third parties. Fair enough. I don't. Time will tell which of us is right. My money is on me.