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Forums - Politics - 100 year old WW2 veteran: "the sacrifice wasn't worth the result of what it is now"

JackHandy said:
SvennoJ said:

What it means is that we have let his sacrifice be for nothing as we're well underway to new fascist oppression. It doesn't mean that he wanted Nazism to steamroll the world in the 1940s, it means that its happening again. It means we haven't learned from history and are repeating the same mistakes that led to Nazi Germany.

Yes he can make that assessment. 

No, he can't because it's wholly-flawed logic.

If he hadn't fought, if no one had fought, there wouldn't be a country to lament about. There wouldn't be a world he doesn't care for. There would be nothing. No interview for him, no opinion for you and no reply from me. If the three of us had been born into that world, and that is a big if considering... we'd all be living in some sort of Tolkien nightmare where Frodo doesn't save the day.

The man was dead wrong.

Period.  

I agree with @The_Yoda After watching the interview it's definitely very personal for him as he chokes up talking about the sacrifices made, loss of his friends. He's not saying the Nazis shouldn't have been defeated, he's saying that the world of today wasn't worth his personal sacrifices.


This was him last year

D-Day veteran tried to send Russian medal back over Ukraine
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/08/d-day-veteran-tried-to-send-russian-medal-back-over-ukraine/

A D-Day veteran who protected troops during the Normandy landings has revealed he tried to send his Russian medal for bravery back to Moscow after Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

But yes otherwise it seems he's upset with the current state of the UK.



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TheRealSamusAran said:
shavenferret said:

Last year some guy from that wonderful religion of peace and love killed some people on Bourbon Street in New Orleans. They hate gays. There have been many instanced of gays killed by Muslims in places where their wonderful religion of peace is dominant. Basically, if we keep opening up the borders, then this problem may get worse because regular americans aren't doing things like that.

Their hate for gays and women is a horrible thing and i'm not going to stand for it.  I can point out systematic discrimination towards gays and women in many muslim dominant nations if anybody is curious.  I can see that is not a good idea to come out nor is it advantageous to have a vagina in these nations unfortunately.  


Since you're that worried about the LGBT community and that willing to stand up for us, I would like to introduce you to this problem: https://translegislation.com/

"In 2025, anti-trans bills continue to be introduced across the country. We track legislation that seeks to block trans people from receiving basic healthcare, education, legal recognition, and the right to publicly exist."

There are far more American born queerphobes in America than immigrant queerphobes, so I hope you look seriously at that problem.

The queerphobes overseas are much worse than american queerphobes, which you obviously don't care about.  You think that we should just only complain about our own problems and i don't like that very much.



shavenferret said:
TheRealSamusAran said:

Since you're that worried about the LGBT community and that willing to stand up for us, I would like to introduce you to this problem: https://translegislation.com/

"In 2025, anti-trans bills continue to be introduced across the country. We track legislation that seeks to block trans people from receiving basic healthcare, education, legal recognition, and the right to publicly exist."

There are far more American born queerphobes in America than immigrant queerphobes, so I hope you look seriously at that problem.

The queerphobes overseas are much worse than american queerphobes, which you obviously don't care about.  You think that we should just only complain about our own problems and i don't like that very much.

Do you have any data behind your statement?

I can only find data suggesting the opposite:

While both the US and Europe have issues with violence against LGBTQ+ individuals, data suggests Europe, particularly Western Europe, generally has lower rates of violence and better legal protections, with countries like Canada, Sweden, and the Netherlands being ranked among the safest globally

. However, violence remains a concern in both regions, and the level of risk varies significantly between countries within Europe due to differences in legal rights and social acceptance. 

United States
  • Violence against LGBTQ+ people is a significant problem in the US, with hate crimes and discrimination occurring across the country.
  • The level of violence can vary by state and even by city, influenced by local laws and social attitudes. 
Europe

  • LGBTQ+ rights and safety vary widely across Europe, with some countries having strong legal protections and high social acceptance, while others lag behind.
  • Western European countries consistently rank as safer for LGBTQ+ individuals due to factors like legal protections and social acceptance, according to indices like the Asher & Lyric's LGBTQ+ Danger Index.
  • Even in Europe, violence is a concern, and some countries outside of Western Europe may pose a higher risk. 

Key differences
  • Legal Protections: Many European countries have stronger legal frameworks for protecting LGBTQ+ individuals, such as comprehensive anti-discrimination laws and legal recognition of same-sex relationships.
  • Social Acceptance: While both regions have a range of social acceptance, the overall average is higher in many Western European nations, contributing to lower rates of violence.
  • Safety Rankings: Rankings consistently place a number of European countries at the top for LGBTQ+ safety, indicating lower overall risk compared to the US. 

According to multiple recent rankings, Canada, Sweden, the Netherlands, Malta, and Spain are among the safest countries for LGBTQ+ individuals due to their legal protections and social acceptance. Other highly-ranked countries include Portugal, Iceland, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, and Australia. These nations generally have robust anti-discrimination laws, legalized same-sex marriage, and a generally accepting society.



Eastern Europe however :/
https://rainbowmap.ilga-europe.org/

And yeah the UK is dropping fast

“Moves in the UK, Hungary, Georgia and beyond signal not just isolated regressions, but a coordinated global backlash aimed at erasing LGBTI rights, cynically framed as the defence of tradition or public stability, but in reality designed to entrench discrimination and suppress dissent.”



Yeah I definitely didn't see this as him implying "the Nazis should have won" or anything like that, more that our freedoms are under constant attack in recent years, which must be especially depressing when you fought a literal world war and saw countless friends die horribly to protect them.



xl-klaudkil said:

If you been to europe, it has changed a lot theze past 10 years.
A LOT

And not in a good way.

I agree, it was always a bad idea to let the United States influence our countries like this.



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I'd just like to reiterate that his premise is just wrong, unless he is talking about his freedom as an ethnically English man in what was then a super-power global empire. The governments in so-called liberal democracies in the first half of the 20th century were literally sterilizing substantial proportions of their populations for a variety of non-violent existential reasons. Again, Turing is a prominent example. 

No infringement of freedoms today by the same liberal democracies is anywhere close to that. 

I could see an argument that maybe much of the west declined in freedom since the 1970-1990s, but before then? Really? 

Anyway, looking up his views he seems to be an old school center-right conservative who is probably disappointed that Britain voluntarily gave up its empire more or less. Probably doesn't see the far-right favorably, but also likely thinks the left is worse. 



shavenferret said:

Last year some guy from that wonderful religion of peace and love killed some people on Bourbon Street in New Orleans. They hate gays. There have been many instanced of gays killed by Muslims in places where their wonderful religion of peace is dominant. Basically, if we keep opening up the borders, then this problem may get worse because regular americans aren't doing things like that.

Their hate for gays and women is a horrible thing and i'm not going to stand for it.  I can point out systematic discrimination towards gays and women in many muslim dominant nations if anybody is curious.  I can see that is not a good idea to come out nor is it advantageous to have a vagina in these nations unfortunately.  


I hate it when my posts meet with an agreement, but someone (probably a moderator) agrees with me but is too yellow bellied to be up front about and name themselves thanks for the anon nod 

Last edited by shavenferret - on 18 November 2025

SvennoJ said:
shavenferret said:

The queerphobes overseas are much worse than american queerphobes, which you obviously don't care about.  You think that we should just only complain about our own problems and i don't like that very much.

Do you have any data behind your statement?

I can only find data suggesting the opposite:

While both the US and Europe have issues with violence against LGBTQ+ individuals, data suggests Europe, particularly Western Europe, generally has lower rates of violence and better legal protections, with countries like Canada, Sweden, and the Netherlands being ranked among the safest globally

. However, violence remains a concern in both regions, and the level of risk varies significantly between countries within Europe due to differences in legal rights and social acceptance. 

United States
  • Violence against LGBTQ+ people is a significant problem in the US, with hate crimes and discrimination occurring across the country.
  • The level of violence can vary by state and even by city, influenced by local laws and social attitudes. 
Europe

  • LGBTQ+ rights and safety vary widely across Europe, with some countries having strong legal protections and high social acceptance, while others lag behind.
  • Western European countries consistently rank as safer for LGBTQ+ individuals due to factors like legal protections and social acceptance, according to indices like the Asher & Lyric's LGBTQ+ Danger Index.
  • Even in Europe, violence is a concern, and some countries outside of Western Europe may pose a higher risk. 

Key differences
  • Legal Protections: Many European countries have stronger legal frameworks for protecting LGBTQ+ individuals, such as comprehensive anti-discrimination laws and legal recognition of same-sex relationships.
  • Social Acceptance: While both regions have a range of social acceptance, the overall average is higher in many Western European nations, contributing to lower rates of violence.
  • Safety Rankings: Rankings consistently place a number of European countries at the top for LGBTQ+ safety, indicating lower overall risk compared to the US. 

According to multiple recent rankings, Canada, Sweden, the Netherlands, Malta, and Spain are among the safest countries for LGBTQ+ individuals due to their legal protections and social acceptance. Other highly-ranked countries include Portugal, Iceland, Norway, Denmark, Belgium, and Australia. These nations generally have robust anti-discrimination laws, legalized same-sex marriage, and a generally accepting society.



Eastern Europe however :/
https://rainbowmap.ilga-europe.org/

And yeah the UK is dropping fast

“Moves in the UK, Hungary, Georgia and beyond signal not just isolated regressions, but a coordinated global backlash aimed at erasing LGBTI rights, cynically framed as the defence of tradition or public stability, but in reality designed to entrench discrimination and suppress dissent.”

This is the source of my anger.  They deserve to be denounced, mocked, ridiculed, and further reproached for their behavior.

Source:  https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/06/06/how-homosexuality-became-a-crime-in-the-middle-east



shavenferret said:

This is the source of my anger.  They deserve to be denounced, mocked, ridiculed, and further reproached for their behavior.

Source:  https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/06/06/how-homosexuality-became-a-crime-in-the-middle-east

Funny looking map of Europe :p, that's what people usually refer too with overseas, but Ok.



Also first line in your link

Colonialism, culture wars and fundamentalist politicians have restricted sexual freedom

Centuries earlier Abu Nuwas, a bawdy poet from Baghdad, wrote lewd verses about same-sex desire. Such relative openness towards homosexual love used to be widespread in the Middle East. Khaled El-Rouayheb, an academic at Harvard University, explains that though sodomy was deemed a major sin by Muslim courts of law, other homosexual acts such as passionate kissing, fondling or lesbian sex were not. Homoerotic poetry was widely considered part of a “refined sensibility”, he says.

The modern Middle East views the subject very differently. A survey by Pew Research Centre in 2013 found that most people in the region believe homosexuality should be rejected: 97% in Jordan, 95% in Egypt and 80% in Lebanon. In 2007 Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, then the president of Iran, told a crowd of incredulous students at Columbia University in New York that “in Iran we don’t have homosexuals”. In 2001 the Egyptian Ministry of Culture burnt 6,000 volumes of Abu Nuwas’s poetry. What happened?


The change can be traced to two factors. The first is the influence, directly or indirectly, of European powers in the region. In 1885 the British government introduced new penal codes that punished all homosexual behaviour. Of the more than 70 countries that criminalise homosexual acts today, over half are former British colonies. France introduced similar laws around the same time. After independence, only Jordan and Bahrain did away with such penalties. Combined with conservative interpretations of sharia law in local courts, this has made life tough for homosexuals. In some countries, such as Egypt, where homosexuality is not an explicit offence, vaguely worded “morality” laws are nevertheless widely used to persecute those who are accused of “promoting sexual deviancy” and the like.

Second, the rise of Islamic fundamentalism in the 1980s coincided with that of the gay-rights movement in America and Europe, hardening cultural differences. Once homosexuality had become associated with the West, politicians were able to manipulate anti-LGBT feelings for their personal gain. Last year Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, an Islamist political group based in Lebanon, accused the West of exporting homosexuality to the Islamic world, echoing Iran’s Ayatollah Khamenei’s warning a year before of “ravaging moral decay” from the West.



Your link just proves Western colonialism is to blame for the decline in gay rights in the Middle East. It's time USA and Europe stop fucking up the Middle East. Enough damage done, get the fuck out.

And the bolded, that's what politicians are doing now in the West. Sort of like the Imperial boomerang. Except now Western politicians are manipulating Islamophobia to curb gay rights... (and many more)



SvennoJ said:
shavenferret said:

This is the source of my anger.  They deserve to be denounced, mocked, ridiculed, and further reproached for their behavior.

Source:  https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/06/06/how-homosexuality-became-a-crime-in-the-middle-east

Funny looking map of Europe :p, that's what people usually refer too with overseas, but Ok.



Also first line in your link

Colonialism, culture wars and fundamentalist politicians have restricted sexual freedom

Centuries earlier Abu Nuwas, a bawdy poet from Baghdad, wrote lewd verses about same-sex desire. Such relative openness towards homosexual love used to be widespread in the Middle East. Khaled El-Rouayheb, an academic at Harvard University, explains that though sodomy was deemed a major sin by Muslim courts of law, other homosexual acts such as passionate kissing, fondling or lesbian sex were not. Homoerotic poetry was widely considered part of a “refined sensibility”, he says.

The modern Middle East views the subject very differently. A survey by Pew Research Centre in 2013 found that most people in the region believe homosexuality should be rejected: 97% in Jordan, 95% in Egypt and 80% in Lebanon. In 2007 Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, then the president of Iran, told a crowd of incredulous students at Columbia University in New York that “in Iran we don’t have homosexuals”. In 2001 the Egyptian Ministry of Culture burnt 6,000 volumes of Abu Nuwas’s poetry. What happened?


The change can be traced to two factors. The first is the influence, directly or indirectly, of European powers in the region. In 1885 the British government introduced new penal codes that punished all homosexual behaviour. Of the more than 70 countries that criminalise homosexual acts today, over half are former British colonies. France introduced similar laws around the same time. After independence, only Jordan and Bahrain did away with such penalties. Combined with conservative interpretations of sharia law in local courts, this has made life tough for homosexuals. In some countries, such as Egypt, where homosexuality is not an explicit offence, vaguely worded “morality” laws are nevertheless widely used to persecute those who are accused of “promoting sexual deviancy” and the like.

Second, the rise of Islamic fundamentalism in the 1980s coincided with that of the gay-rights movement in America and Europe, hardening cultural differences. Once homosexuality had become associated with the West, politicians were able to manipulate anti-LGBT feelings for their personal gain. Last year Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, an Islamist political group based in Lebanon, accused the West of exporting homosexuality to the Islamic world, echoing Iran’s Ayatollah Khamenei’s warning a year before of “ravaging moral decay” from the West.



Your link just proves Western colonialism is to blame for the decline in gay rights in the Middle East. It's time USA and Europe stop fucking up the Middle East. Enough damage done, get the fuck out.

And the bolded, that's what politicians are doing now in the West. Sort of like the Imperial boomerang. Except now Western politicians are manipulating Islamophobia to curb gay rights... (and many more)

It's America's fault!

It's Europe's fault!  

It's everybody else's fault and the liberals can't stand me pointing fingers. 

For morality to work with them, first they have to decide which group is worse off.   Gays or the middle east?  Then regardless of any ethics or reason, they twist it all around and blindly follow the people that are hurting others and make excuses.