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bdbdbd said:

And I would add that people hate when they shove politics in your entertainment, especially when you use the entertainment to get away from politics and such matters.

People don't care if entertainment is political. Most entertainment that does anything interesting is political. What people don't like is when the politics are at odds with their own views.

Lots of the biggest media in the world right now is political. Marvel, Star Wars, Star Trek is political. 

Lord of the Rings is political. There is stuff about kings, war. There's environmentalism.

The Hunger Games is political. 

Tons of stories are about government action (such as war), or about conflict with a authoritarian government.

bdbdbd said:

Surely, when someone says he or she has high moral, you have some sort of idea what he or she means?

I'm going to respond to this part next. 

As I said no. I'm not aware of any definition of moral that is used the way you're using it. 

As I've said a few times, "following more rules" is arbitrary. It's a meaningless idea. 

bdbdbd said:

Of course all religions are made up. I'm not saying any of them was more valid than any other, it's just that their values, dogmas and punishment for not following a religion differs from each other. If there was a religion where homosexuality was punisheable by death, it would clearly be much worse than a religion where it's not punisheable by death. If there was a religion where women would need to cover themselves or get stoned or whipped or raped, it would be much worse than religion that doesn't require women to cover themselves. If there was a religion where leaving a religion was punisheable by death, it would clearly be worse than religion that doesn't do that. 

I've used the European natural pagan religions as an example of non-dogmatic religion that based on practicioner's own philosophy and on the other extreme I've used islam as an example of dogmatic religion that has very strict rules and severe punishment for not following them.

The point is that even when people *do* have the same rules, they frequently get interpreted differently. 

And people frequently don't pick the same rules. 

Take it the next logical step, if religion is made up by people, why would you expect everyone to follow the religion the same way? 

Even when a church body is strict about what they teach, you will still find that individuals have different thoughts about it. Those different views don't get expressed in an authoritarian country, but people still aren't actually going to be on the same page. 



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bdbdbd said:

I think you're right about people wanting stories where they're included, but that's not how it works. Whether you read a book, watch a movie or play a game, the events aren't telling about you, but the story and representation is supposed to let you to experience the events. You weren't Ellen Ripley in USCSS Nostromo, but the film took you there. Reading Lord of the Rings takes you to Middle-Earth, and watching the movies does the same thing, but film lets you to experience the events of the story in a different way. When you play a game, the character is your avatar and you play with the character that either suits your playing style the best or is the most fun to watch. If you can feel included only by having an avatar that represents you as closely as possible, the problem isn't the avatar.

People can still want stories that are relatable to their interests. 

As someone who likes theoretical computer science, I think it's really awesome that a movie like Imitation Game exists. I wouldn't necessarily recommend a movie like that to most people, but I'm very fond of it. 

As someone who is interested in Japanese culture, I appreciate that Ghost of Tsushima takes reference of Japanese culture. 

If I were gay, I might be interested in seeing a gay character that has to deal with the same social challenges I do. 



the-pi-guy said:

People don't care if entertainment is political. Most entertainment that does anything interesting is political. What people don't like is when the politics are at odds with their own views.

Sorry Pi, but I disagree with you on the above point.

Example #1 - The movie "The Shining (1980)" is a badass movie, but it sensationalizes domestic violence, something which I despise, and I hope you do too.

Example #2 - "The Exorcist (1973)" is another crazy movie, but as an atheist, what if I'm wrong? I sure as heck don't want to burn in hell.



the-pi-guy said:
bdbdbd said:

I think you're right about people wanting stories where they're included, but that's not how it works. Whether you read a book, watch a movie or play a game, the events aren't telling about you, but the story and representation is supposed to let you to experience the events. You weren't Ellen Ripley in USCSS Nostromo, but the film took you there. Reading Lord of the Rings takes you to Middle-Earth, and watching the movies does the same thing, but film lets you to experience the events of the story in a different way. When you play a game, the character is your avatar and you play with the character that either suits your playing style the best or is the most fun to watch. If you can feel included only by having an avatar that represents you as closely as possible, the problem isn't the avatar.

People can still want stories that are relatable to their interests. 

As someone who likes theoretical computer science, I think it's really awesome that a movie like Imitation Game exists. I wouldn't necessarily recommend a movie like that to most people, but I'm very fond of it. 

As someone who is interested in Japanese culture, I appreciate that Ghost of Tsushima takes reference of Japanese culture. 

If I were gay, I might be interested in seeing a gay character that has to deal with the same social challenges I do. 

Why would you want to play a game about the shitty things in your own life? Thats like a person with cancer wanting to play a game where they lie in a hospital bed and going in for chemotherapy every now and then. I can understand wanting that in a movie, but an interactive form of entertainment like video games? Sounds depressing.



the-pi-guy said:

People can still want stories that are relatable to their interests. 

As someone who likes theoretical computer science, I think it's really awesome that a movie like Imitation Game exists. I wouldn't necessarily recommend a movie like that to most people, but I'm very fond of it. 

I do agree with you here Pi. The IG movie is a great flick.  I am a fan of Alan Turing, I always have been since I was a kid.

I'm a computer geek too.  The "Turing Test" is just awesome, and he came up with it so long ago. Brilliant man.



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KLXVER said:

I dont think I have ever heard a gamer say they feel the need to be "included" in a game. I dont really get what that means. Just a character having the same skin color or sex as themselves? Ive never gone "Oh wait, Im not represented in this game. Oh well...no more Tetris for me."

This is a straw man argument. 

The point isn't that "every" or even most stories have to be relatable. I don't think anyone has ever asked for that. 

But there's something special when a character is more relatable, and that doesn't have to mean their identity. It could even be their personality, or their interests. 

My previous post is pretty relevant here: 

"As someone who likes theoretical computer science, I think it's really awesome that a movie like Imitation Game exists. I wouldn't necessarily recommend a movie like that to most people, but I'm very fond of it. 

As someone who is interested in Japanese culture, I appreciate that Ghost of Tsushima takes reference of Japanese culture. 

If I were gay, I might be interested in seeing a gay character that has to deal with the same social challenges I do."

I don't think any of this on a big picture level is anywhere as controversial or strange as you two are trying to imagine that it is.

People want diverse characters going through diverse things. I want Tetris and Uncharted and Skyrim and Bloodborne, and 26 other very different games. I don't want 30 versions of the exact same thing. 

And I think people generally want stuff that is somewhat relatable to their interests. Maybe that isn't sex/race based for you. Maybe that's more about scientific interests. Maybe that's more about someone having a personality that is relatable. 



KLXVER said:

Why would you want to play a game about the shitty things in your own life? Thats like a person with cancer wanting to play a game where they lie in a hospital bed and going in for chemotherapy every now and then. I can understand wanting that in a movie, but an interactive form of entertainment like video games? Sounds depressing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That_Dragon,_Cancer

"The game is an autobiography based on the Greens' experience of raising their son Joel, who was diagnosed with terminal cancer at twelve months old. Though only given a short time to live, Joel survived for four more years before succumbing to the cancer in March 2014."

Maybe people want to tell stories that comfort them about their experiences.

Maybe people want to tell stories where they triumph over their experiences. A story where someone has cancer, and is a cancer researcher doing work to overcome their illness? I could see someone making an interesting game out of that.



BFR said:

.

My singular sentence there is not the whole story.

A lot of the outrage gets manufactured. 

People were upset about The Last of Us Part II, months before the game even came out and before people understood the whole context. I doubt if the leak happened that most of the people who were upset about the game, would be upset about it. 



the-pi-guy said:

KLXVER said:

Why would you want to play a game about the shitty things in your own life? Thats like a person with cancer wanting to play a game where they lie in a hospital bed and going in for chemotherapy every now and then. I can understand wanting that in a movie, but an interactive form of entertainment like video games? Sounds depressing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That_Dragon,_Cancer

"The game is an autobiography based on the Greens' experience of raising their son Joel, who was diagnosed with terminal cancer at twelve months old. Though only given a short time to live, Joel survived for four more years before succumbing to the cancer in March 2014."

Maybe people want to tell stories that comfort them about their experiences.

Maybe people want to tell stories where they triumph over their experiences. A story where someone has cancer, and is a cancer researcher doing work to overcome their illness? I could see someone making an interesting game out of that.

"In March 2016, Ryan Green, speaking for his team, commented that the game has only sold about 14,000 copies, based on Steam Spy data, and they have yet to recover their development funds for the game"



the-pi-guy said:
BFR said:

.

My singular sentence there is not the whole story.

A lot of the outrage gets manufactured. 

People were upset about The Last of Us Part II, months before the game even came out and before people understood the whole context. I doubt if the leak happened that most of the people who were upset about the game, would be upset about it. 

I never said your "singular sentence" was the whole story. I was just referring to you saying that "What people don't like is when the politics are at odds with their own views."

I'm sorry, but I disagree with that statement. However, for the most part, you are right....but, there are always exceptions to anything someone states as a fact.