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Forums - Gaming - The PSP could connect to a TV, does that make it a home console?

Hardstuck-Platinum said:
Phenomajp13 said:

I could easily ask what is the point of the distinction now? That's the part you are not understanding, in the past the point was due to technology restraints or the price would be absurd. Why purchase a portable device at a higher price because you want to play on your television when you could just purchase the device meant to play on your TV (the home console)?

Regardless this is a pointless butthurt console warrior debate. Sony refers to their consoles and handheld devices as "gaming systems" proven by the 500 million achievement in 2018 where Sony combined the sales of PS1, PS2, PSP, PS3, PS Vita, and PS4. In other words, they are all gaming systems no matter the subcategories of home, handheld, and hybrid. PS2 will likely always be the highest selling home console and is still also the highest selling gaming system. Sony and Nintendo have been consistent in pushing this agenda in calling PSP, PS Vita, and Nintendo Switch as portable devices offering console experiences. Nintendo calls the Switch a "portable home console" not just a home console and you know this, you are just purposely being obtuse because of your hurt. 

I'll repeat, you are correct the Switch will never be the highest/biggest selling home console however it doesn't want that petty title. It wants to be called the highest selling video game system! So cry all you want, it changes nothing. That's why some posters refuse to engage, you are flat out dictating everyone else trying to strong arm us into an argument never made. They are all video game systems (hardware) and all require a way to actually view the video game (software), whether that's an external monitor like a TV or built in internal monitors like the handhelds. You are trying to bully us into using your terms such as console or handheld when I, Sony, and Nintendo have no issue with considering them all video game systems.

Edit: I forgot to mention, the Switch isn't considered what it is due to just connecting to the TV and everything coming in the box. The other things that aren't mentioned but are important to what the product offers are the detachable controllers. I'm not sure why this isn't mentioned enough but that's what makes it all so brilliant. The controllers are incredibly versatile and people like you seem to forget they allow for all types of games including motion control gaming like what Wii offered, a home console. Handhelds don't push motion control gaming for a reason, it isn't suited for them. The Switch becoming more powerful in docked mode also matters because the whole point of down clocking is to be actually portable ie battery. I dont really understand what could be down to make it a hybrid in some of your eyes because what else could be done?

It's impossible to dictate to/ strongarm others into anything with forum threads. You are being incredibly dramatic. If the moderators felt this was a non genuine trolling thread they would have closed it already, but they have even been in here discussing with me. If the mods can engage with me no problem, why can't everyone? Your making this very personal and it's unnecessary. 

I dont really understand what could be down to make it a hybrid in some of your eyes because what else could be done?

Having it so you can connect a graphics card to the dock so you can boost the resolution if you want to? That would be a true hybrid. It's got nothing to do with connecting controllers or multiplayer. You can connect multiple controllers to android phones if you want. How does multiple controllers or multiplayer transform a handheld into a home console hybrid. 

No, it's exactly what you are doing in this thread telling other people how to refer to PSP, PS2, and Switch and dictating definitions. Your initial posts was fully dictated by you, when you said people refer to Switch as a home console? You dont get to tell others what we refer to Switch as. That's what I meant and you give the mods too much credit in dictating conversations. Those are not their intentions, you are free to make threads as long as they aren't offensive in some way. You aren't offending Switch and now that I dispelled your logic, you have moved to telling me my feelings? 

Edit: Also your multiple replies to others are the definition of strawman agruments.

Last edited by Phenomajp13 - on 02 December 2024

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Phenomajp13 said:
Hardstuck-Platinum said:

It's impossible to dictate to/ strongarm others into anything with forum threads. You are being incredibly dramatic. If the moderators felt this was a non genuine trolling thread they would have closed it already, but they have even been in here discussing with me. If the mods can engage with me no problem, why can't everyone? Your making this very personal and it's unnecessary. 

I dont really understand what could be down to make it a hybrid in some of your eyes because what else could be done?

Having it so you can connect a graphics card to the dock so you can boost the resolution if you want to? That would be a true hybrid. It's got nothing to do with connecting controllers or multiplayer. You can connect multiple controllers to android phones if you want. How does multiple controllers or multiplayer transform a handheld into a home console hybrid. 

No, it's exactly what you are doing in this thread telling other people how to refer to PSP, PS2, and Switch and dictating definitions. Your initial posts was fully dictated by you, when you said people refer to Switch as a home console? You dont get to tell others what we refer to Switch as. That's what I meant and you give the mods too much credit in dictating conversations. Those are not their intentions, you are free to make threads as long as they aren't offensive in some way. You aren't offending Switch and now that I dispelled your logic, you have moved to telling me my feelings? 

Edit: Also your multiple replies to others are the definition of strawman agruments.

Isn't everyone's initial posts dictated by themselves? Who else would be dictating their post? If your being defensive to the extent of saying ridiculous things like that, how is it possible to respond?



Hardstuck-Platinum said:
Phenomajp13 said:

No, it's exactly what you are doing in this thread telling other people how to refer to PSP, PS2, and Switch and dictating definitions. Your initial posts was fully dictated by you, when you said people refer to Switch as a home console? You dont get to tell others what we refer to Switch as. That's what I meant and you give the mods too much credit in dictating conversations. Those are not their intentions, you are free to make threads as long as they aren't offensive in some way. You aren't offending Switch and now that I dispelled your logic, you have moved to telling me my feelings? 

Edit: Also your multiple replies to others are the definition of strawman agruments.

Isn't everyone's initial posts dictated by themselves? Who else would be dictating their post? If your being defensive to the extent of saying ridiculous things like that, how is it possible to respond?

Dude again the purposely obtuse mess isn't going to work. You are free to express your opinions but you aren't expressing your opinions if you are telling us we consider Switch a home console. You are free to say it is a handheld but not free to tell me I consider it a home console or console and then debate it. That's a strawman, you could have just kept it about the question initially posted. It initially looked genuie until you strawmanned everything just to protect PS2. You even went into another thread and did it. You even called out another poster for refusing to engage with you. People aren't blind, we see what you are doing.

Also why aren't you debating what I said? Do you agree? They are all gaming systems and Switch is aiming for PS2's current title of highest selling gaming system but you tried to strawman people into the agrument of it (Switch) considered a home console and shouldn't be compared to PS2.

Last edited by Phenomajp13 - on 02 December 2024

Phenomajp13 said:
Hardstuck-Platinum said:

Isn't everyone's initial posts dictated by themselves? Who else would be dictating their post? If your being defensive to the extent of saying ridiculous things like that, how is it possible to respond?

Dude again the purposely obtuse mess isn't going to work. You are free to express your opinions but you aren't expressing your opinions if you are telling us we consider Switch a home console. You are free to say it is a handheld but not free to tell me I consider it a home console or console and then debate it. That's a strawman, you could have just kept it about the question initially posted. It initially looked genuie until you strawmanned everything just to protect PS2. You even went into another thread and did it. You even called out another poster for refusing to engage with you. People aren't blind, we see what you are doing.

Also why aren't you debating what I said? Do you agree? They are all gaming systems and Switch is aiming for PS2's current title of highest selling gaming system but you tried to strawman people into the agrument of it (Switch) considered a home console and shouldn't be compared to PS2.

I have been an active posting member of this site for almost a year.  Trolling or using psychological warefare tactics to bait people is against the terms and conditions of vgchartz, so if I was doing all of that I would have been banned already. It's like accusing someone of being a violent criminal when they have a clean criminal record. If you feel/ others feel I am playing psychological warfare tactics with people like you are suggesting, then I don't mind if you, along with the others all report me to the mods, because that is against the terms and conditions of this website

"highest selling gaming system" yeah well if it sells more than PS2, that is undisputable isn't it? There is no strawman, it's just handheld sales and home console sales aren't usually compared. Whatever the 2nd best selling home console of all time is, is considered 2nd best even though the DS sold more than it. Different categories. 



Hardstuck-Platinum said:
Phenomajp13 said:

Dude again the purposely obtuse mess isn't going to work. You are free to express your opinions but you aren't expressing your opinions if you are telling us we consider Switch a home console. You are free to say it is a handheld but not free to tell me I consider it a home console or console and then debate it. That's a strawman, you could have just kept it about the question initially posted. It initially looked genuie until you strawmanned everything just to protect PS2. You even went into another thread and did it. You even called out another poster for refusing to engage with you. People aren't blind, we see what you are doing.

Also why aren't you debating what I said? Do you agree? They are all gaming systems and Switch is aiming for PS2's current title of highest selling gaming system but you tried to strawman people into the agrument of it (Switch) considered a home console and shouldn't be compared to PS2.

I have been an active posting member of this site for almost a year.  Trolling or using psychological warefare tactics to bait people is against the terms and conditions of vgchartz, so if I was doing all of that I would have been banned already. It's like accusing someone of being a violent criminal when they have a clean criminal record. If you feel/ others feel I am playing psychological warfare tactics with people like you are suggesting, then I don't mind if you, along with the others all report me to the mods, because that is against the terms and conditions of this website

"highest selling gaming system" yeah well if it sells more than PS2, that is undisputable isn't it? There is no strawman, it's just handheld sales and home console sales aren't usually compared. Whatever the 2nd best selling home console of all time is, is considered 2nd best even though the DS sold more than it. Different categories. 

You are correct and maybe you should consider thats not what your post were actually doing (the rule) and consider the mods just view your post as disengious and completely strawmanned and maybe that's not the same as the rule. Also maybe you weren't reported?

Regardless, yes that is your opinion and you can express that and we simply disagree. I don't see anything wrong with comparing them because they both push into each other boundaries such has playing handhelds like home consoles on my TV with a separate controller and playing home consoles on the beach (Sony's ad) via remote play on PS Portal like a handheld. I think the lines are getting too blurred. My Switch is used the same as Wii. Nice chat and if you genuinely didn't mean to come off the way you did my apologies for my post making you feel potentially attacked. Your post have come off that way and I assure you other posters agree.

Edit: I want to add that this is another example of you trying to bully everyone into fitting your definitions. You do not get to determine this (what is or isnt comparable) or anyone else besides Sony, Nintendo, and Xbox because they define this market. You might ask why them? Its because they are the ones that release these products, without them, the market doesn't exist, and that means no console market. Retailers play a role as well due to them being the ones that bring the products to consumers. All the retailers have them in the same location, take a wild guess at why that is? This is why I used Sony's words to show you. Sony grouped them all (their consoles and handhelds) as gaming systems.

Last edited by Phenomajp13 - on 02 December 2024

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He's right, the PSP is a home console because the second iteration of it is able to be connected to the TV via an optional peripheral that's not included in the box.

It's just like the Switch except for the lack of local multi-player games, ease of use, everything needed for it to be used as a home console included in the box, and higher resolution for games when docked. Those things don't matter for a home console. All you need is the option to have it displayed on the TV through some means.

There are no more handheld systems.



I like it when my mom goes out of town because I get to sleep on her side of the bed. -William Montgomery

Hardstuck-Platinum said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Most TVs completely mess up the fit to screen effect and blowout the image or introduce input lag. Yes, you can use an adapter but only the expensive ones work very well. Feel free to suggest an adapter that is affordable. PSP doesn't just fail to fit to a screen. It doesn't even fill up half the real estate on the screen. This isn't just a few black bars kind of situation. A lot of TVs in 2005 when the PSP launched didn't even have component inputs. Especially 2nd hand TVs that would be in a kid's or teenager's room.

What makes Switch so great is that it simply docks and works. It sends the correct aspect ratio and resolution to all TVs without any issues or extra equipment to buy.

P.S. Here's what your Megadrive looks like with the PAL black bars. They are tiny. PSP leaves half the screen unfilled. Your Megadrive example is apples to oranges.

I know it's not a perfect comparison but my point was, we can't just disqualify consoles/handhelds without TV output from being considered as legitimate experience because the image they put out on a modern screen looks like turd. The hardware in the PSP is 20 years old, of course it's going to look like turd on a modern screen. If we go by that logic we would have to disqualify a lot of older consoles as well because they won't look good on modern screens either.Â

What if the image they put on an old screen looks like a turd too? Whether you use a modern TV or a CRT PSP will only fill 1/3rd the screen. Certain TVs from 20 years ago had a "fill screen" mode and other input lag causing annoyances too.


PSP doesn't qualify as a hybrid because...

1. You needed to buy extra parts such as component cables and scalers to get it to play correctly on a TV. Switch has everything in the box ready to go.
2. It didn't have a separate control method outside of the portable mode. A.K.A. it didn't have a Pro controller or other non-handheld controller.
3. It could only play a small selection of games that were ported from PS2.
4. The 1K model didn't have the port to make use of external cables for TV play. That's the launch model.
5. You couldn't do 2 or more players on PSP without having a second unit.

Overall if you want to call the PSP a proto-hybrid, like the Wii U, or the Genesis Nomad I'll agree with that. Let's just agree that Switch finally got the hybrid concept right and did everything that hybrid systems needed to do. It was a revolutionary design.

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 03 December 2024

Hardstuck-Platinum said:
Phenomajp13 said:

What AAA games are mobile hardware missing? Keep in mind, Steam Deck and the other mobile PCs are mobile hardware.

I forgot about things like the ROG ally and steam deck but I would like to change my answer anyway. A portable is a platform that contains a screen and battery and a home console is one that needs to be connected to TV and mains socket. Why should we do away with the distinction between portables and home consoles? They're both very different. Power and specs are irrelevant.

Evilms said:

THANK YOU for this post. A picture says 1000 words. All these platforms here are considered handhelds but can do exactly the same as the Switch. Why does the switch get a special category for it when all the others don't? It's not fair on the other platforms

Cerebralbore101 said:
Hardstuck-Platinum said:

I know it's not a perfect comparison but my point was, we can't just disqualify consoles/handhelds without TV output from being considered as legitimate experience because the image they put out on a modern screen looks like turd. The hardware in the PSP is 20 years old, of course it's going to look like turd on a modern screen. If we go by that logic we would have to disqualify a lot of older consoles as well because they won't look good on modern screens either.Â

What if the image they put on an old screen looks like a turd too? Whether you use a modern TV or a CRT PSP will only fill 1/3rd the screen. Certain TVs from 20 years ago had a "fill screen" mode and other input lag causing annoyances too.


PSP doesn't qualify as a hybrid because...

1. You needed to buy extra parts such as component cables and scalers to get it to play correctly on a TV. Switch has everything in the box ready to go.
2. It didn't have a separate control method outside of the portable mode. A.K.A. it didn't have a Pro controller or other non-handheld controller.
3. It could only play a small selection of games that were ported from PS2.
4. The 1K model didn't have the port to make use of external cables for TV play. That's the launch model.
5. You couldn't do 2 or more players on PSP without having a second unit.

Overall if you want to call the PSP a proto-hybrid, like the Wii U, or the Genesis Nomad I'll agree with that. Let's just agree that Switch finally got the hybrid concept right and did everything that hybrid systems needed to do. It was a revolutionary design.

Look at those pictures in this post I quoted. Does the PSP image on the TV look like turd? Looks fine to me. There is even a Dualshock 3 you can connect to it too.  It is not fair on all those devices to just call them "proto- hybrids' and the switch a full hybrid. This is not about me taking things away from switches success it's about not discarding that others have done the same. How is that fair?

1- Do we say the N64 didn't have rumble just because the attachable accessory to the controller didn't come included in the box? No we don't. You can't just disregard a consoles features because things didn't come in the box. 

2 - Yes it did. DS3 could be connected to a PSP go that was TV connected. 

3- What's the library got to do with a platforms features?

4- Switch lite is a strict handheld only and has no docking capability but people still call it a switch and include it's sales with the switch. If switch was true hybrid the sales would be separated. 

5- You can connect multiple controllers/phones connected to an android phone, have it connected it to the TV and play multiplayer on it, doesn't make it a hybrid. 



Hardstuck-Platinum said:

I know, but it doesn't matter what it's "sold as". Just because Sony didn't show the feature as a selling point to the consumers, doesn't mean it can be discounted as having the same feature as the switch

Why doesn't it matter what it is sold as? I mean, the Genesis was sold as a home console. The same exact hardware was also used in the Sega Nomad and sold as a portable console (which also could hook up to a TV). 

The feature isn't discounted. What is discounted is the delegation of "home console" to the PSP. Because, while it was a feature, it was one that required a separate accessory (two if you count the controller) and was only compatible for select models. 

You could argue that the Switch Lite is only a portable and you'd be correct. But the Switch itself is both. 



Doctor_MG said:
Hardstuck-Platinum said:

I know, but it doesn't matter what it's "sold as". Just because Sony didn't show the feature as a selling point to the consumers, doesn't mean it can be discounted as having the same feature as the switch

Why doesn't it matter what it is sold as? I mean, the Genesis was sold as a home console. The same exact hardware was also used in the Sega Nomad and sold as a portable console (which also could hook up to a TV). 

The feature isn't discounted. What is discounted is the delegation of "home console" to the PSP. Because, while it was a feature, it was one that required a separate accessory (two if you count the controller) and was only compatible for select models. 

You could argue that the Switch Lite is only a portable and you'd be correct. But the Switch itself is both. 

It doesn't matter what something is sold as because people can see what something is and how it functions. The ROG ally is a much better docked gaming experience than Switch, but it wasn't even sold as a docked experience. It was sold as a portable one, because that is how it primarily functions. Switch is the same but Nintendo just chose to market it as a hybrid console instead. How something is sold as is just marketing, how something functions is tangible. 

Nomad - genesis chipset + screen + battery = Handheld.

Genesis = just chipset. Requires power and TV = Home console