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Which do you think was the better system?

Xbox 26 46.43%
 
Dreamcast 30 53.57%
 
Total:56
Azzanation on 08 November 2024
Leynos said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

There was a period of time where they were not making money towards the end of the XB1 generation when they made all those acquisitions. Xbox wasn't profitable. The personal computing arm of MS was profitable. That included Windows, Xbox, and a whole bunch of other stuff. But it was Windows and the other stuff that paid the bills making it profitable. Not the sales of Xbox consoles, or software, or subscriptions. Xbox as it was in 2017 is dead weight and still loses money. It's the Blizzard/Activision/Bethesda part of Xbox that actually pays the bills.

Anyway my point stands. Sega found success on their own, even if it was only for a single generation. Xbox would have been DOA if not for MS losing billions on it.

Also, Sega had and still has a better games development department than Xbox. That's why Dreamcast wins this battle. They courted 3rd party developers to bring over tons of great arcade games to Dreamcast. They made plenty of their own smash hits. Dreamcast had more kickass exclusives when they left the market in 2001 than XB1 had after seven years on the market. More than OG Xbox had when it was replaced by 360 too.

Want to know what's funny. The last Xbox game was in 2008. A Madden game. The last official Dreamcast game released in 2007. Karous a shmup. Now go check Ebay prices and see which one is in more demand. Dreamcast games generally in more demand with retro collectors.

Some of the worst games ever made are sold on Ebay at extremely high prices..

Also, the rarer the game, the more the asking price by sellers, Sega Dreamcast games, did not produce as many copies due to the lack of sales, making them harder to find, hence the high prices. This is basic logic Leynos.



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DarthMetalliCube on 09 November 2024

Dreamcast by a country mile. Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, Crazy Taxi, Chu Chu Rocket, Virtua Tennis, Grandia 2, Powerstone 2, all those lightgun games.. So many often overlooked gems..

Xbox has the best online going for it NOW but back in the day it was still in its infancy. So all the og Xbox really had going for it was Halo and Morrowind (and a particularly giant controller). It didn't even have Rareware, Dead Rising, or Gears yet.. Once Sega went to pasture on the hardware front though, I did jump on the Xbox with the 360, and still enjoy the XB One/Series X. Though I wish Sega would make a comeback console :/



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

Chrkeller on 09 November 2024
Cerebralbore101 said:

Notable Dreamcast console exclusive games during the Dreamcast's lifetime...

Soul Calibur
Jet Set Radio
Skies of Arcadia
Marvel VS Capcom 2
Grandia 2
Samba De Amigo
Phantasy Star Online
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
Shenmue
Shenmue 2
Power Stone
Power Stone 2
Metropolis Street Racer
Bangai-O
Sega GT
Street Fighter III
Typing of the Dead
House of the Dead 2
Crazy Taxi
Crazy Taxi 2
Project Justice
Ooga Booga
Capcom VS SNK
Fatal Fury Mark of the Wolves
Chu Chu Rocket
Mars Matrix
Gigawing
Gigawing 2
Under Defeat
Dead or Alive 2
Virtua Fighter 3
Daytona USA (Massive Upgrade from Saturn)
Maken X
Cannon Spike
Joe Joe's Bizzare Adventure
Seaman
Elemental Gimmick Gear
Zombie Revenge
Dynamite Cop
Tech Romancer
Sega Rally 2
Record of Lodoss War
Confidential Mission
Tokyo Extreme Racer 2
Gunbird 2
Quake III Arena
Resident Evil Code Veronica
KOF Evolution
Outrigger
The Last Blade 2
Unreal Tournament
Wacky Races
Virtual On 2
Test Drive Le Mans
Wacky Races
M.D.K.

Notable Xbox Console Exclusives during it's lifetime...


Halo
Halo 2
Ninja Gaiden Black
Knights of the Old Republic
Knights 2
Forza Motorsport
Half Life 2
Project Gotham Racing 2
Panzer Dragoon Orta (Made by Sega)
Jade Empire
Riddick
JSRF (Made by Sega)
Morrowwind
Doom 3
Oddworld Stranger's Wrath
Oddworld Munch's Odyssey
Crimson Skies
Dead or Alive 3 (Made by Sega)
Dead or Alive Ultimate (Made by Sega)
Mechassault
Unreal Championship 2
Unreal Championship
Farcry Instincts
Project Gotham Racing
Fable
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Dues Ex Invisible War
Steel Battalion
Sega GT (Made by Sega)
Theif Deadly Shadows
Phantom Dust
Kingdom Under Fire
Mech Assault 2
Otogi (Published by Sega)
Otogi 2 (Published by Sega)

As anyone can clearly see Dreamcast did almost twice as much in under 2 years as the original Xbox did in it's entire lifetime when it comes to making good games.





I'd rather have the Xbox lineup, to each their own.  



Leynos on 09 November 2024
Azzanation said:
Leynos said:

Want to know what's funny. The last Xbox game was in 2008. A Madden game. The last official Dreamcast game released in 2007. Karous a shmup. Now go check Ebay prices and see which one is in more demand. Dreamcast games generally in more demand with retro collectors.

Some of the worst games ever made are sold on Ebay at extremely high prices..

Also, the rarer the game, the more the asking price by sellers, Sega Dreamcast games, did not produce as many copies due to the lack of sales, making them harder to find, hence the high prices. This is basic logic Leynos.

You never heard of Karous before I mentioned it so don't pretend it's somehow a bad game. It's a good game. Also some of the best games ever are sold on eBay at high prices. See how that works. You are confusing rarity with demand. There are rare games out there that do not demand high prices as they're not in high demand. 1st party N64 games go for higher prices than some rare Dreamcast games despite being common. Saturn Bomberman has fewer copies than Mario 64 but sells at the same price. Airs Adventure on Saturn I highly doubt more than 100k copies exist but it goes for $5-8. You can find many Saturn games that are pretty obscure from Japan are fairly low priced but not in high demand in the West due to the language barrier. Fighting games and Shmups go for higher prices mainly due to being more import-friendly.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Azzanation on 10 November 2024
Leynos said:
Azzanation said:

Some of the worst games ever made are sold on Ebay at extremely high prices..

Also, the rarer the game, the more the asking price by sellers, Sega Dreamcast games, did not produce as many copies due to the lack of sales, making them harder to find, hence the high prices. This is basic logic Leynos.

You never heard of Karous before I mentioned it so don't pretend it's somehow a bad game. It's a good game. Also some of the best games ever are sold on eBay at high prices. See how that works. You are confusing rarity with demand. There are rare games out there that do not demand high prices as they're not in high demand. 1st party N64 games go for higher prices than some rare Dreamcast games despite being common. Saturn Bomberman has fewer copies than Mario 64 but sells at the same price. Airs Adventure on Saturn I highly doubt more than 100k copies exist but it goes for $5-8. You can find many Saturn games that are pretty obscure from Japan are fairly low priced but not in high demand in the West due to the language barrier. Fighting games and Shmups go for higher prices mainly due to being more import-friendly.

I am not saying Karous is a bad game, but basing game popularity and quality on EBay prices isn't a good way to judge.

You can literally buy Skyrim on EBay for $10. 

Second hand game prices varies based on rarity and phases, not quality.



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Cerebralbore101 on 10 November 2024
Azzanation said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

There was a period of time where they were not making money towards the end of the XB1 generation when they made all those acquisitions. Xbox wasn't profitable. The personal computing arm of MS was profitable. That included Windows, Xbox, and a whole bunch of other stuff. But it was Windows and the other stuff that paid the bills making it profitable. Not the sales of Xbox consoles, or software, or subscriptions. Xbox as it was in 2017 is dead weight and still loses money. It's the Blizzard/Activision/Bethesda part of Xbox that actually pays the bills.

Anyway my point stands. Sega found success on their own, even if it was only for a single generation. Xbox would have been DOA if not for MS losing billions on it.

Also, Sega had and still has a better games development department than Xbox. That's why Dreamcast wins this battle. They courted 3rd party developers to bring over tons of great arcade games to Dreamcast. They made plenty of their own smash hits. Dreamcast had more kickass exclusives when they left the market in 2001 than XB1 had after seven years on the market. More than OG Xbox had when it was replaced by 360 too.

Thats incorrect because MS didn't own Bethesda and ABK during the XB1 era. The XB1 was a more profitable system than the 360 and OG Xbox because the 360 had the Red Ring issue which cost MS $1.6b in itself to address as well as selling the 360 and OG Xbox at massive losses. Xbox One didn't make as much profit as its competitors but it wasn't bleeding money like the 360/PS3/OGXBOX/DC were.

The fact you are throwing Bethesda and ABK in to prove your point is misleading and a desperate attempt to try and prove your point. Bethesda was brought in 2021 and ABK in 2022. The XB1 launched in 2013, the start of the new generation.

Also, Sega entered the market at a very different time, before the mega corps got involved. Sega's failure was due to the lack of funding and lack of good games. I liked Sega but let's not be delusional here. Sega games have not aged well outside of the Genesis and Master System eras. We can claim they had some Gems but so did every console ever made.

Well you are assuming I'm only talking about Actiblizz and Bethesda. You realize Xbox acquired more than just Bethesda and Actibliz right? They bought a slew of smaller developers and dumped a bunch of money into Gamepass in 2018.

Do you have proof that XB1 was profitable? Can you bring up some old Microsoft PNL sheets and link to them? Because I remember Microsoft never reporting individual Xbox profits and just lumping it in with the entire Moore Personal Computing department.

Sega's failure was due to a surprise launch of the Saturn in North America which ticked off retailers. As a result of this Wal-Mart, Target, and pretty much every USA retail chain refused to sell the Saturn. Yeah 32X and Sega CD had underwhelming libraries. But Saturn was DOA in the USA due to the boneheaded surprise launch. Competition with Sony (a mega corp) wasn't what killed them. Saturn outsold the N64 in Japan and if it wasn't DOA in the states it would have outsold the N64 in the USA as well. I can't stress how much of a death sentence not being carried by most USA retail chains was for the Saturn.

At the end of the day Xbox survived by having deep pockets. Sega died because it was a regular company and not a subsidary to a massive mega-corp.






Chrkeller on 10 November 2024

Saturn did not have the lineup to even remotely challenge the n64 in the US. No way I'm buying that hypothesis.

Perhaps retail stock didn't help, but it bombed in the US because the lineup was meh (I am being nice) and the price was absurd.



Cerebralbore101 on 10 November 2024
Chrkeller said:

Saturn did not have the lineup to even remotely challenge the n64 in the US. No way I'm buying that hypothesis.

Perhaps retail stock didn't help, but it bombed in the US because the lineup was meh (I am being nice) and the price was absurd.

The following notable games were released by December 1996 for Saturn in NA. AKA released before or within the N64's launch window of September 1996.

Daytona USA
Panzer Dragoon
Panzer Dragoon II
Virtua Fighter Remix
Shinobi Legions
Astal
Rayman
Dark Legend (Suiko Enbo in Japan)
Virtua Racing
Sega Rally Championship
Virtua Cop
Virtua Cop 2
Sega Rally 2
Layer Section
Mystaria
Street Fighter Alpha
Battle Arena Toshinden
Night Warrior's Darkstalker's Revenge
X-Men Children of the Atom
Guardian Heroes
Wipeout
In The Hunt
Shining Wisdom
Galaxy Fight
Legend of Oasis
Nights into Dreams
Fighting Vipers
Dragon Force
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Virtual On
Tomb Raider
Dark Savior
Powerslave

Meanwhile here's all the good N64 games by the end of 1997...

Super Mario 64
Wave Race 64
Killer Instinct Gold
Star Wars Shadows of the Empire
Mario Kart 64
Turok Dinosaur Hunter
Blast Corps
Starfox 64
Goldeneye
Duke Nukem 64
Diddy Kong Racing
WCW vs NWO

A lot of people don't realize that Saturn had a really good library early on. It bombed in sales in NA and then developers stopped making games for it.



Chrkeller on 10 November 2024
Cerebralbore101 said:
Chrkeller said:

Saturn did not have the lineup to even remotely challenge the n64 in the US. No way I'm buying that hypothesis.

Perhaps retail stock didn't help, but it bombed in the US because the lineup was meh (I am being nice) and the price was absurd.

The following notable games were released by December 1996 for Saturn in NA. AKA released before or within the N64's launch window of September 1996.

Daytona USA
Panzer Dragoon
Panzer Dragoon II
Virtua Fighter Remix
Shinobi Legions
Astal
Rayman
Dark Legend (Suiko Enbo in Japan)
Virtua Racing
Sega Rally Championship
Virtua Cop
Virtua Cop 2
Sega Rally 2
Layer Section
Mystaria
Street Fighter Alpha
Battle Arena Toshinden
Night Warrior's Darkstalker's Revenge
X-Men Children of the Atom
Guardian Heroes
Wipeout
In The Hunt
Shining Wisdom
Galaxy Fight
Legend of Oasis
Nights into Dreams
Fighting Vipers
Dragon Force
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Virtual On
Tomb Raider
Dark Savior
Powerslave

Meanwhile here's all the good N64 games by the end of 1997...

Super Mario 64
Wave Race 64
Killer Instinct Gold
Star Wars Shadows of the Empire
Mario Kart 64
Turok Dinosaur Hunter
Blast Corps
Starfox 64
Goldeneye
Duke Nukem 64
Diddy Kong Racing
WCW vs NWO

A lot of people don't realize that Saturn had a really good library early on. It bombed in sales in NA and then developers stopped making games for it.

I see a lot of arcade and japan preferred titles.  Honestly, I don't see much that would have driven US sales.  Especially at their price tag.  

Edit 

I'm going off memory but I don't recall anyone at school really caring about the Saturn.  Meanwhile 007 and FF7 were the talk of the town.  The Saturn, imo, didn't have a US system seller.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 10 November 2024

Leynos on 10 November 2024
Cerebralbore101 said:
Chrkeller said:

Saturn did not have the lineup to even remotely challenge the n64 in the US. No way I'm buying that hypothesis.

Perhaps retail stock didn't help, but it bombed in the US because the lineup was meh (I am being nice) and the price was absurd.

The following notable games were released by December 1996 for Saturn in NA. AKA released before or within the N64's launch window of September 1996.

Daytona USA
Panzer Dragoon
Panzer Dragoon II
Virtua Fighter Remix
Shinobi Legions
Astal
Rayman
Dark Legend (Suiko Enbo in Japan)
Virtua Racing
Sega Rally Championship
Virtua Cop
Virtua Cop 2
Sega Rally 2
Layer Section
Mystaria
Street Fighter Alpha
Battle Arena Toshinden
Night Warrior's Darkstalker's Revenge
X-Men Children of the Atom
Guardian Heroes
Wipeout
In The Hunt
Shining Wisdom
Galaxy Fight
Legend of Oasis
Nights into Dreams
Fighting Vipers
Dragon Force
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Virtual On
Tomb Raider
Dark Savior
Powerslave

Meanwhile here's all the good N64 games by the end of 1997...

Super Mario 64
Wave Race 64
Killer Instinct Gold
Star Wars Shadows of the Empire
Mario Kart 64
Turok Dinosaur Hunter
Blast Corps
Starfox 64
Goldeneye
Duke Nukem 64
Diddy Kong Racing
WCW vs NWO

A lot of people don't realize that Saturn had a really good library early on. It bombed in sales in NA and then developers stopped making games for it.

I'd add Hyper Duel to the 1996 list. It's a great shmup and my personal favorite Tecnosoft games (Thunder Force series) shame it goes for 700 bucks these days lol.  Hoping City Connection will released it as an Saturn Tribute game like they did with Cotton,Guardian Froce and most recently Wolf Fang and Skull Fang.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!