azrm2k said: Nobody has anything against Bioware not wanting to develop for Wii rocketpig or at least I don't. The thing about this article is that they stoop to such ridiculous BS like "Is the Wii actually gaming?" That's the kind of thing you hear out of idiotic fanboys not industry professionals or so you would hope.

 You say you have nothing against them, but in the same post call them "idiotic fanboys" and unprofessional.  Hypocrite much?

 

On topic: It's irrelevant that games from the NES era were weak on story because strong story was not really possible on that hardware.  For me personally the story is at least 50% of my decision to buy a game or not.  Gaming has changed over the past decade, and the successful games with no story are extremely few and far between.

Words Of Wisdom said: Viper1 said: Words Of Wisdom said: Faxanadu said: again, whats with the retarded guys lately? this is another case of no integrity and any lack of business sense. i mean for gods sake.... Yes of course, let's ignorantly insult the integrity two guys sitting at the top of what is probably the best WRPG developer currently in existence. Since when has success prevented someone from saying something completely stupid? Well said Viper1. The difference here is that I understand what his point was whereas a lot of people are just dismissing it as casual Wii-bashing...

A person in his position must take care with what words he/she chooses to express their opinions with.

This guy failed at such a simple task to the degree that his words were callous in tone.    Because he chose that tone it is quite easy to associate it with some form of angst against the Wii.   Or in other words, Wii-bashing as you called it.

He took it upon himself to be illogical and rash where there was no provocation or casue for such tone.  Can you give me one sinlge psychological reason why one would say what he did without any actual implied negativity?

 

Viper1 said: Words Of Wisdom said: Viper1 said: Words Of Wisdom said: Faxanadu said: again, whats with the retarded guys lately? this is another case of no integrity and any lack of business sense. i mean for gods sake.... Yes of course, let's ignorantly insult the integrity two guys sitting at the top of what is probably the best WRPG developer currently in existence. Since when has success prevented someone from saying something completely stupid? Well said Viper1. The difference here is that I understand what his point was whereas a lot of people are just dismissing it as casual Wii-bashing... A person in his position must take care with what words he/she chooses to express their opinions with. This guy failed at such a simple task to the degree that his words were callous in tone. Because he chose that tone it is quite easy to associate it with some form of angst against the Wii. Or in other words, Wii-bashing as you called it. He took it upon himself to be illogical and rash where there was no provocation or casue for such tone. Can you give me one sinlge psychological reason why one would say what he did without any actual implied negativity?

@WoW:  what was that first reply to my post for?

With his statement, he pretty much has enstranged anyone who likes playing video ngames on the Wii. If he thinks that way, no problem. But publicly stating this? Isnt there a better way to express his opinion?

Furthermore, he has now publicly insulted a potential (and de facto (see DS)) business partner - one I might add that has quite a heavy influence in the industry. Meaning one that owns 2/5 of all current gen hardware and has proprietory control over that hardware.

Is that business sense?  

Viper1 said: Words Of Wisdom said: Well said Viper1. The difference here is that I understand what his point was whereas a lot of people are just dismissing it as casual Wii-bashing... A person in his position must take care with what words he/she chooses to express their opinions with. This guy failed at such a simple task to the degree that his words were callous in tone. Because he chose that tone it is quite easy to associate it with some form of angst against the Wii. Or in other words, Wii-bashing as you called it. He took it upon himself to be illogical and rash where there was no provocation or casue for such tone. Can you give me one sinlge psychological reason why one would say what he did without any actual implied negativity?

People looking to be offended will be.  If you want to believe what he's saying was insulting, you will.  At this point I'm wondering if some Wii owners are to the point where any time anyone mentions the Wii without a boatload of praise they become annoyed.  I'm a fellow Wii owner and I'm not insulted because I can see what he's talking about. 

Words Of Wisdom said: Viper1 said: Words Of Wisdom said: Well said Viper1. The difference here is that I understand what his point was whereas a lot of people are just dismissing it as casual Wii-bashing... A person in his position must take care with what words he/she chooses to express their opinions with. This guy failed at such a simple task to the degree that his words were callous in tone. Because he chose that tone it is quite easy to associate it with some form of angst against the Wii. Or in other words, Wii-bashing as you called it. He took it upon himself to be illogical and rash where there was no provocation or casue for such tone. Can you give me one sinlge psychological reason why one would say what he did without any actual implied negativity?   People looking to be offended will be.  If you want to believe what he's saying was insulting, you will.  At this point I'm wondering if some Wii owners are to the point where any time anyone mentions the Wii without a boatload of praise they become annoyed.  I'm a fellow Wii owner and I'm not insulted because I can see what he's talking about.

You agree that games that aren't story-driven aren't real games?

As always, some people go on offtopic rants instead of replying to the topic at hand. This is not about hardcore or casual, it's about the declarations of someone who just created a new definition of gaming with the intent of criticizing the Wii.

Words Of Wisdom said: Viper1 said: Words Of Wisdom said: Well said Viper1. The difference here is that I understand what his point was whereas a lot of people are just dismissing it as casual Wii-bashing... A person in his position must take care with what words he/she chooses to express their opinions with. This guy failed at such a simple task to the degree that his words were callous in tone. Because he chose that tone it is quite easy to associate it with some form of angst against the Wii. Or in other words, Wii-bashing as you called it. He took it upon himself to be illogical and rash where there was no provocation or casue for such tone. Can you give me one sinlge psychological reason why one would say what he did without any actual implied negativity?   People looking to be offended will be.  If you want to believe what he's saying was insulting, you will.  At this point I'm wondering if some Wii owners are to the point where any time anyone mentions the Wii without a boatload of praise they become annoyed.  I'm a fellow Wii owner and I'm not insulted because I can see what he's talking about.

While I'll agree that the comment was far from offensive, you have to admit that it's pretty idiotic. If I may summarize:

"All gaming is about story. Games on the Wii are not about story. Therefore, the Wii is not about gaming."

 It's a neat little syllogism, but because its two assumptions are seriously flawed, the conclusion is an error. I understand that to Bioware story-telling is their bread and butter, and I approve. But there are plenty of games that are not about telling a story. Platformers, puzzlers, sports games, and many more genres would have to be considered "toys" under that rubric, and I don't think I need to point out why that's wrong. The comment about the Wii not having Story Games is likewise incorrect, as it has already seen games like Fire Emblem, Opoona, etc. released for it. It was a bizzare statement, one that makes me think he misunderstood the question, but the answer he gave is wrong. That's what has so many folks worked up (perhaps overly so, but whacha gonna do?).

[quote]Satoru Iwata, President of Nintendo
GDC Keynote
March 10, 2005

http://cube.ign.com/articles/595/595089p1.html

 "..."

"Of course, these games themselves have become much bigger in several ways. That, in turn, requires bigger teams, bigger budgets, bigger challenges in meeting deadlines. This also means that big game companies are getting bigger - by consuming smaller ones. We know that in the next generation, budgets for triple-A consoles games will regularly move into eight digits - and that's before any marketing money is spent. Only they biggest companies can afford such costs"

"..."

"On the other hand, what's more prominent in my thinking these days is how our industry is getting smaller. We are smaller in the amount of risk we're willing to accept. We are also smaller in how we define videogames. The list of genres seems fixed - shooters, sports, platformers, puzzles, and so on. When is the last time we invented a new genre? But as importantly, even within these genres, we have reduced the environments we use. The racing tracks, the sound tracks, the bosses, the heroes, are starting to look more and more alike. Consider Tiger Woods Gold and Mario Golf - each a successful franchise, but using two different looks for this game genre. Such variety is becoming harder and harder to find. "

"We are even getting smaller in how we define progress. Making games look more photorealistic is not the only means of improving the game experience. I know, on this point I risk being misunderstood, so remember, I am a man who once programmed a baseball game with no baseball players. If anyone appreciates graphics, it's me! But my point is that this is just one path to improved game. We need to find others. Improvement has more than one definition"

"..."

"But I would like to spend the rest of my time today on what is perhaps the next logical question: where does Nintendo go from here? Let me try to explain it first with an image. In the universe of interactive entertainment, there is a planet we call videogames. It is the one we know best. But it is only one. Also in our universe are other planets which entertain, but in different ways from current games. It is this part of the universe that we are anxious to explore."

"This idea creates the dual passions of Nintendo. On one hand, we work every day to make what we describe as videogames better. We want to give players what they want. But at the same time, we are intent on finding out what else we can use to entertain. Our second goal is to show players something new, something they may not even know they want. You already are familiar with a good example of this philosophy. It's called Pokemon. At its core, Pokemon is a wonderful role-playing game. But it's also much more. Players will collect and trade Pokemon, maybe the same way you once collected and traded bottle caps or baseball cards. Pokemon expanded RPGs to places they hadn't gone before. "

"..."

"So this is Nintendo's plan. Make our existing game world much better. Better Zeldas, better Marios, better partnerships creating games like Resident Evil 4. But also, exploring other worlds in interactive entertainment. For us, this is a passion. This is a mission of adventure. And most importantly, we want you - the creative heart for our entire industry - to take that journey with us"

[quote]

I should also like to add that BioWare has a deplorable tendency to DROWN their games in narrative.

Sorry to quote Zero Punctuation, but game dialogue should be succinct and punchy, not swimming with piles and piles of useless information which has little relevance to anything you're doing in the game or ever WILL do in the game.

And BioWare claiming the title of "best western RPG developer" is laughable because there really isn't much for competition, is there? (Bethesda, and?) I played Baldur's Gate II for as long as I could before the game became so sidetracked with random quests and bullshit that I completely forgot what the main story even WAS.

And let's talk about Mass Effect's so-called "gameplay": it was horrible. Aside from the fact that they stripped out the much-needed ability to freeze the action and direct your teammates to specific locations, the combat itself is clunky and cumbersome, your teammate AI is absolutely worthless, and the only weapon you should ever bother using is the sniper rifle. Most of the time, I either told my teammates to get the hell out of the way while I handled everything or I sent them in as meat shields.

The point is, BioWare complaining about the Wii is completely predictable because the Wii is trying to push the limits of gameplay and BioWare wouldn't know decent gameplay if it bit them in the ass.

But as was mentioned earlier, narrative and story have been done well before the advent of optical media, mainly in games like Chrono Trigger and FF6/US3, Fire Emblem on the NES, etc., etc.

Which leads us to our final point: BioWare is whining for the sake of whining, which I don't really understand, unless the interviewee never had his mother tell him "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."