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Forums - Politics Discussion - Biden vs Trump 2024 Political Platforms, Policies and Issues

Farsala said:
Chrkeller said:

Partially true, at best, IMO.  Not helping others isn't born, at least for me, out of selfishness.  For me it is driven more by the number of family members I have that are on the government handouts.  Why are they on government handouts?  Because they are lazy and don't give a crap.  When I was younger, I was very much liberal.  But after 30 years of seeing a bunch of uncles, cousins and what not...  be lazy and expect handouts, yeah, I have gotten a chip on my shoulder about it.  I always felt government handouts needed to weed out the people looking for temporary help versus people who simply don't want to be a contributing member of society.  I don't feel the need to support lazy people because they don't want to work.  And I have a good dozen family members who fit this description.  And it is crazy how much they feel entitled to my money, like I should pay for their food and help them get a car.  Because I have money and they don't.  They are missing the principle; I have money because I have a job.  

Just my 2 cents, which probably won't be popular.  

Edit 

I have a 40+ year old cousin who lives at home and uses his mom's SS to buy food.  When covid checks arrived in the mail he ran out and bought a 2k french bulldog.  His mom recently died and now he wants help because he can't live off her SS checks.  Sorry, but I should help a moron who bought a 2k french bulldog and hasn't had a job in 20 years because?  

People, in many cases, need to help themselves.  

Of course I don't have sympathy for the lazy either. However, I don't have a problem with taking money from the super rich and using it for good things like infrastructure, science, medicine, making student loans cheaper, etc. I don't feel like just because 1000s of rich chinese students flooded my university, that I should have to pay double. Capitalism naturally made it double, but there should be checks and balances.

Unfortunately, personal experience has jaded the crap out of me.  I have a cousin who got pregnant.  Her boyfriend went to jail for abuse, the child is stuck on a feeding tube for life.  She visited him in jail and ended up pregnant a second time by the same guy...  people are so dumb.  

But I am sure most people aren't as stupid and worthless as my family.  I am so glad I moved 5,000 miles away from those morons.  



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Farsala said:
sundin13 said:

"How would this effect me?" is a supremely selfish way of looking at things. I'm like you in that either way, my life likely won't change too much but I realize that I'm lucky in a lot of ways. 

I'm not a woman, so I don't have as many concerns about losing my right to choose and make my own healthcare decisions (though those concerns still exist).

I'm not trans, so I don't have to worry about losing my access to gender affirming healthcare or protection against discrimination.

I don't have any significant medical conditions, so I don't really have to worry about what happens to my coverage if the ACA is dismantled.

I'm not gay, so I don't have to worry about losing the right to marry.

I'm not poor so I don't need to worry about losing my access to food stamps.

I'm not in college so I don't have to worry about the dismantling of aid programs like Public Service Loan Forgiveness. 

I am technically an immigrant, but luckily I have legal residency so I don't need to worry about being deported or my family being deported.

No one can really say what will happen in a second Trump presidency, but the stakes are high for a lot of people

@bold

Most people, especially in the US have become increasingly selfish. It is why most people don't want to have kids anymore, because their way of life will become radically different. People think they can't afford a kid with today's wealth, but truly it is because they don't want to make the necessary sacrifices. People don't want to have kids because they are selfish. We as gamers, live in an entertainment luxury, but truly we could easily give most of it up and buy cheaper forms of entertainment. The same goes for most people in western countries and their various luxuries.

People are losing their sense of community and compassion for their fellow countrymen. I guess they see all the Trump supporters and have decided that helping them would be a waste of time.

Do you have a source for selfishness being the cause behind less children? From everything I’ve read about declining birth rates, as countries become more developed and women have better access to things like contraceptives, education & careers, they are having kids later and since it gradually gets more difficult for women to get pregnant starting in their 30s, having kids later means having less kids in general.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

So anyone who doesn't have kids is selfish now? WTF?



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Farsala said:

@bold

Most people, especially in the US have become increasingly selfish. It is why most people don't want to have kids anymore, because their way of life will become radically different. People think they can't afford a kid with today's wealth, but truly it is because they don't want to make the necessary sacrifices. People don't want to have kids because they are selfish. We as gamers, live in an entertainment luxury, but truly we could easily give most of it up and buy cheaper forms of entertainment. The same goes for most people in western countries and their various luxuries.

People are losing their sense of community and compassion for their fellow countrymen. I guess they see all the Trump supporters and have decided that helping them would be a waste of time.

Someone deciding to not have kids because they don't think they can afford it, is not selfishness.  

Selfishness requires a lack of consideration for others. It's about putting yourself ahead of others. Not wanting kids is not selfish, because you don't owe other people children. 

Some people are deciding to not have kids out of selflessness. With climate change considerations, not having a kid is probably the single best thing a normal person can do to help the world. 

With that said, I do think there are a lot of issues where people are losing their sense of community. There are a lot of people that do not want children in their space whatsoever. There are communities like childfree, who just strongly believe that kids are a burden. As if it's just really easy for us to shove our kids into a closet for 18 years and have them be functional adults, and we're just choosing not to; and we're just selfish a-holes for bringing our kids onto an airplane or something. 

There are definitely some selfish people like that, but there's nothing selfish about not wanting kids for themselves. 



I don't have kids. I will never have kids.

1) Conservatives wouldn't like it as it's not a traditional family dynamic.
2) 100~ million children are living in the streets across the planet. We don't need more children if we can't even look after the current ones. - So let the LGBT community adopt?
...But again, conservatives wouldn't like it.
3) I have a busy career and simply don't have the time.
4) My rescue career is not a guaranteed SAFE workplace and I may never go home, not going to subject a child to that.

The biggest issue is people judging others and comparing them to their own standards, which is simply a toxic and incorrect perspective.
We are all different and have different goals, desires and ambitions, we should be FREE to live life the way we want, not how someone with a judgmental attitude demands.
And if that means you don't want kids, that is your right as a free individual in my opinion.

And if that somehow makes me "selfish" then I suggest you analyze what I do for my community and country.



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I agree with Pem 100%

Let me also add, that I have never wanted to have kids for two reasons:

1. I like to drink, hell I'm drinking right now, and I have never been married, and I don't want to drink in front of a wife and any kids.

2. When I was a kid, my father would spank me (He was a US Marine with service in Vietnam) but today, you can't spank your kids - they call it child abuse in 2024. You have to give them a timeout.  I'm sorry people, spanking works, I got the message by the age of 10. Timeouts don't work which is why the kids of today are lazy, stupid fucks, with a zero work ethic.



Support from Bernie Sanders and AOC for Biden is a bit concerning, not because I think they're wrong, but because I think they have been contributing for a lot of Biden surprisingly progressive policies during his first term, and I'm worried the reason they don't want Biden to be replaced is because they know the alternatives will not champion that very same progressive agenda which won me, and a lot of Biden skeptics, over.

While I believe that beating Trump is important, but it's also important not to go back to neo-liberal era that allowed for someone like Trump's rise to begin with. Fingers crossed.

Last edited by LurkerJ - on 11 July 2024

What can I say? Focusing on your own career is indeed selfish. And there is nothing wrong with that. But it is what it is.

Women who focus on their own education and career instead of their husband's is indeed more selfish. But again there is nothing wrong with that. I am not saying it is a particularly bad thing.

Women Who had to give up everything for their family at a ripe young age are the most selfless. Same thing with men but in a completely different way.



LurkerJ said:

Support from Bernie Sanders and AOC for Biden is a bit concerning, not because I think they're wrong, but because I think they have been contributing for a lot of Biden surprisingly progressive policies during his first term, and I'm worried the reason they don't want Biden to be replaced is because they know the alternatives will not champion that very same progressive agenda which won me, and a lot of Biden skeptics, over.

While I believe that beating Trump is important, but it's also important not to go back to neo-liberal era that allowed for someone like Trump's rise to begin with. Fingers crossed.

I think it's because they don't have someone who is good enough to change the ride in 4 months. 

Farsala said:

What can I say? Focusing on your own career is indeed selfish. And there is nothing wrong with that. But it is what it is.

Women who focus on their own education and career instead of their husband's is indeed more selfish. But again there is nothing wrong with that. I am not saying it is a particularly bad thing.

Women Who had to give up everything for their family at a ripe young age are the most selfless. Same thing with men but in a completely different way.

Because it isn't. 

By definition, selfishness is with a disregard to other people. 

Buying yourself a pack of gum isn't selfish. Buying yourself a pack of gum so that someone else can't have it, is selfish. 

Focusing on your career isn't selfish. Abandoning your husband/wife to focus on your career is selfish. 

Raising kids because you want cheap labor to work on your farm, is not selfless. 

Selfishness is not the absence of selflessness, or vice versa. There are plenty of things that are neither. Not having kids is not selfish or selfless. 



Farsala said:

What can I say? Focusing on your own career is indeed selfish. And there is nothing wrong with that. But it is what it is.

Women who focus on their own education and career instead of their husband's is indeed more selfish. But again there is nothing wrong with that. I am not saying it is a particularly bad thing.

Women Who had to give up everything for their family at a ripe young age are the most selfless. Same thing with men but in a completely different way.

My wife and I started a family young (at 21) and have a lot of kids by todays standards (4 kids) and no, I don’t feel any more selfless/less selfish than people who choose to start families later on.

Getting an education/career before starting a family can actually be because you think it will help you be a better parent or be able to provide for your kids better.

It’s starting to shift but the view has been that going to college will get you a better paying job and having a good paying job will increase your odds of being able to afford a home in a safe community with a well funded school district. I wouldn’t call that line of thinking selfish.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.