Need to respond to this too

All Zelenski needed to do was concede that Ukraine would not become an official member of NATO. Very simple.

All Russia needs to do is leave Ukraine and then they'll be peace. Very simple.

Or continue sending hundreds of thousands of Russians to their deaths for Putin's imperialistic desires. You'd also know if you follow the war that a huge amount of people being conscripted for Russia's war are not Moscow/St Petersburg but Russians from impoverished areas of Russia that Putin and his ilk see as undesirable. If we're talking about genocides, Russia is committing one on both Ukraine and on its own people in certain regions.

Analysts suggest Putin is relying on poor and remote areas of the country, often places with large ethnic-minority populations.

2014 Coup.

Yeah, the coup created by Russia, Lol. Crimea was all Russian and Donbas was Russian backed mercenaries.

Journalists Find More Graves of Russian Troops Killed in Ukraine's Donbas Warzone — UNIAN

Anyone seriously suggesting that Ukraine should simply accept having 16% of its territory stolen and not only that, accept not being allowed in NATO, therefore making them defenceless against a future Russian invasion has a screw loose and are simply only aiding Russia. Was Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Crimea, Donbas, then escalating to half of Ukraine not clear enough indication that they will not stop?

How the fuck can you sit there with a straight face and tell me that Russia won't just try again to take more of Ukraine later down the line? When they've done it multiple times already to multiple countries! The first invasion of Chechnya was a failure, Russia signed a peace deal with Chechnya, guess what they did after? Invaded them again and completely flattened the country and won.

If he doesn't respond to you soon I'm just going to thread ban him, Lol. He's wasting our time, comes into the thread to generalise everyone, making broad statements, refuses to elaborate, insults a user, hones in on a specific issue but then refuses to read the responses or give a proper reply, even to yourself, Rol, Pi-Guy but he can't use the excuse of "too long" on any of you, despite that he dips out the thread for weeks cause he's a very busy man, even though it was his decision to post in the thread in the first place and create a debate, then he returns weeks later and still doesn't address the points that I, Pi-Guy, Rol or Yourself made after promising to do so, in fact he promised to do so a couple days ago but keeps delaying things.

I'm willing to let him slide ignoring me, he's clearly a lost cause when it comes to that, the only reason I'm responding is not for his sake but for anyone else reading who may be on the fence, I'll let him use his "too long" excuse (even though he's a "Maths PHD" who should be used to reading lengthy things) but he has absolutely zero excuse to continue to ignore yourself and yet he continues to do so, likely because he knows he has no true rebuttal to it, he knew his generalised statement was nonsense and only intended to rile. Meanwhile I get the same old shit of "I'm going to respond to the stuff that you wrote back then but I won't bother reading anything you wrote back then" or his little whine on the previous page when he finally responded only to immediately complain about being challenged and cut communication off, Lol.

Like I said, I'm fine with him ignoring me though but I'm giving him a real easy out here to not bother with me and respond to your question which he still hasn't done...All the thread is now is frigging foreign policy because Firebush's "both sides are the same" apparently only extends to foreign policy (where I've pointed out even there that no, both sides are not the same, Lol). Everything to me just looks like a user who came in with the sole purpose to rile people up and didn't actually care about debating. Just wanted to drop a grenade and then ditch the thread. Now he's caught where he actually has to respond but is taking forever to do so which is frustrating, and yet he accuses others of not debating in good faith.

@firebush03 Respond to Zorg's question. You're in University. You should be used to deadlines. You've had weeks now.

This isn't some kind of game. There are no cards. 

Zelenskyy does want peace, but that requires Russia to retreat. 

He put out a peace plan in November 2022

Very cool that you are able to ascertain exactly how Zelenskyy was feeling. 

Before Johnson went to Ukraine, Russia was already unhappy with what Ukraine was demanding. 

Russia says Ukraine presented 'unacceptable' draft peace deal

No, you see, Ukraine, the defending country, should be the one who makes all the concessions against the aggressor because that's totally fair and makes sense. Ukraine should give up 16% of its territory and give up their ability to be able to join a defensive organisation, they should give up their ability to defend themselves, we promise we won't attack again in the future 😊

Just ignore that Ukraine wouldn't have been able to join NATO as long as we were causing active conflicts in Donbas and Crimea. Ignore that France and Germany already rejected Ukraine's NATO bid in the past. Ignore that we have more nukes bordering NATO countries than NATO countries have bordering us. Ignore that half our neighbours despise us. Ignore that we've invaded multiple countries in recent history and are currently illegally occupying multiple countries. Ignore that we already started with Crimea/Donbas and then expanded when we built our army up.

"But it’s an extensive essay which examines Ukraine’s societal trends going back to since the fall of the USSR."

This shit is just going to be a copy/paste of Putin's history lesson isn't it? Lmao. Societal trends...Smdh, Lol.

Sure is crazy that a countries societal trends change throughout history and especially when they constantly get threatened and attacked.

erg. i’m stuck between a rock and a hardplace. I really do want to give your guys’ points the time of day, but I really don’t have time to be talking too much on this. I have math I need to focus on, and politics are the last thing I want on the forefront of my mind. I can certainly give responses, but it would take time (as y’all are certainly aware). *This is especially the case when one guy chooses to type up an entire hour’s worth of readings in every response.* I mean seriously, do you guys see how much I would need to read and research in response to that one mini-comment I left? You guys left a page-and-a-half of remarks. That’ll take hours for me to provide anything remotely sufficient.

i’ll contemplate just dropping out of the forum entirely, and give my essay in due time. I just don’t have time for this, unfortunately. :/ if ryuu would be willing to concede, I’d be willing to stay. But I literally can’t do this bc one guy chooses to ruin it. Pi-Guy and Dino dude have been perfectly fine, and I enjoy reading their remarks. But I am at a loss with Ryuu.

Time for the UK to invade USA. The Americans were our brothers, America doesn't exist, it's a British colony and it's the bloody French's fault that Americans started to dislike us, the French drove a wedge between our American brothers and ourselves! We will invade America and take back what is ours! Blame the French! Blame America for being in NATO! Britain demands total demilitarisation of America, the withdrawal from NATO! All ties cut with the French! And Joe Biden to step down!

I can certainly respond to this tomorrow though. I see no problem with addressing this. You make a good point pi-guy: That comment I left was a little flawed in the presentation. This is because it was a little too reliant on constructing the narrative, and far less on providing evidence. I’ll be better with that once I have the essay polished up.

How so? I straight up gave you an out, I said multiple times you can ignore me but respond to Zorg instead of me since you made clear that you haven't and will not read the majority of my posts on the subject so it's pointless. But you won't even respond to Zorg and still won't after you've had weeks. You have no excuse for not responding to Zorg who questioned you after you dropped a big ass generalisation in the thread.

If you have maths to focus on, if politics are the last thing that you want on your mind, if it takes you weeks to formulate a response to even the most basic of rebuttals after you came in here, dropped some bait, generalisations and insults, then maybe you shouldn't have damn well posted in the first place? Did anyone force you to post in here? Do you understand how forums work? People post things and then others respond.

It doesn't take that long to read my posts, maybe takes a while to respond to them but you've straight up said that you aren't even bothering to read them, let alone respond to them, while you continue to post multiple inaccurate statements, that says to me that despite all your complaining about how act that you have zero interest in changing your viewpoint or taking in any other information which doesn't conform to your agenda.

There's been multiple times where you've been pointed out as posting something inaccurate and you persist with this same debate, I've given you an easy out from it and instead go back to Zorg's comment in response to your "both sides are the same" statement, especially since the damn thread is dominated by foreign policy now but you can't even do that either.

So stop acting like the victim when you made things difficult for yourself.

Dude has posted in this thread 15 times in the last 24 hours but doesn’t have the time to respond to people……

"Do you guys see how much I would need to read and research"

And maybe, just maybe! You should have researched before making statements on multiple subject matters? This is especially annoying, when people comment on something with a definitive statement, are rebutted but then straight up admit they didn't bother doing research beforehand. Now you're on the backfoot, instead of researching first and then commenting.

What will happen now? Well you're likely feeling defensive, which will result in poor research because it will become desperate attempts to back up your position because the alternative of simply admitting you were wrong is too hard to do, in fairness, it is for most people, but I've yet to see you admit that you were wrong about multiple subjects that have been rebutted with actual evidence because you're now trapped in this stance.

You now have to somehow argue that...

1. Democrats and Republicans are the same, actually.
2. How to blame America for Russia invading Ukraine.

God help you how you'll argue the first point, as for the 2nd point, I mean you can throw all the "NATO/America bad" you want, even if Russia's invasion WAS because Ukraine wanted to join a defensive organisation (it wasn't), it doesn't give Russia any excuse for invading Ukraine and Russia is still 100% in the wrong, that isn't America telling me to say that, I don't give a fuck about what America says, that's basic human morals.

If you saw my past two years of posting in the Russia-Ukraine thread where I've followed the conflict every single day for the past two years, you'd see me often call out America's stances on certain matters because despite what you believe, America has played a game of cowardly escalation management throughout the course of the war. It's has often been European countries taking a harder stance on Russia than America, despite you believing it's big bad America controlling all us dumb fucks in Europe.

But anyway.

Respond to Zorg's Comment.

When I wake up, I hope to see a response to his comment. 🙂