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Forums - Politics Discussion - Biden vs Trump 2024 Political Platforms, Policies and Issues

Chrkeller said:
Ryuu96 said:

You consider yourself Republican don't you? We'd likely disagree on a lot but I do appreciate that you are at least capable of calling out the MAGA nutjobs infecting the GOP. Feels like a lot of Republicans are incapable of doing so and simply fall in line.

I'm a registered republican, I have some social liberalism views (women's rights) and fuck everyone involved in Jan 6th.  It was treason, full stop. 

Just out of curiosity, which issues have caused you to lean more towards the Republican Party? If I recall in a previous discussion you mentioned that you support universal healthcare and abortion access and based on your views on J6, I’m assuming you’re not a fan of the extremist wing of the Republican Party that just wants to obstruct and please Trump.

Seems pretty rare for someone to have those views while also leaning R so I’m interested in hearing how you came to that decision.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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zorg1000 said:

Like Ryuu suggested, you could start by explaining how both sides are the same on domestic issues like healthcare, abortion, immigration, infrastructure, climate change, crime, LGBT rights, voting rights, gun safety, education, childcare, student debt, marijuana legalization, labor rights, housing, tax policy, social security, etc?"

It’s literally the point of this thread, comparing the candidate’s (and their parties in general) policies.

okie doke. Already said this in three other message today, but I will get to you on everything, dinosaur dude. But I’m busy, so pls be patient.



zorg1000 said:
Chrkeller said:

I'm a registered republican, I have some social liberalism views (women's rights) and fuck everyone involved in Jan 6th.  It was treason, full stop. 

Just out of curiosity, which issues have caused you to lean more towards the Republican Party? If I recall in a previous discussion you mentioned that you support universal healthcare and abortion access and based on your views on J6, I’m assuming you’re not a fan of the extremist wing of the Republican Party that just wants to obstruct and please Trump.

Seems pretty rare for someone to have those views while also leaning R so I’m interested in hearing how you came to that decision.

My big paycheck and substantial savings.  I don't know how to word that political correct.  I get more money via Republicans and I don't need nor will ever need social programs.

Self interest, essentially.

As far as extreme Republicans, they are killing the party and making it so I can't vote for them.  I'm voting Biden.  I'd like to have more money in my pocket but I can't support absolute morons.  

Hopefully that all makes sense.



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Chrkeller said:
zorg1000 said:

Just out of curiosity, which issues have caused you to lean more towards the Republican Party? If I recall in a previous discussion you mentioned that you support universal healthcare and abortion access and based on your views on J6, I’m assuming you’re not a fan of the extremist wing of the Republican Party that just wants to obstruct and please Trump.

Seems pretty rare for someone to have those views while also leaning R so I’m interested in hearing how you came to that decision.

My big paycheck and substantial savings.  I don't know how to word that political correct.  I get more money via Republicans and I don't need nor will ever need social programs.

Self interest, essentially.

that’s…sad. You got a lucky spawn, but those who are less fortunate need to suffer? :( We can also just divert spending from military and porkbarrel to social programs without adjusting taxes. I see no problem with that.



firebush03 said:
Chrkeller said:

My big paycheck and substantial savings.  I don't know how to word that political correct.  I get more money via Republicans and I don't need nor will ever need social programs.

Self interest, essentially.

that’s…sad. You got a lucky spawn, but those who are less fortunate need to suffer? :( We can also just divert spending from military and porkbarrel to social programs without adjusting taxes. I see no problem with that.

Lucky spawn?  I didn't graduate cum laude and get an advanced degree in chemistry + work 50 hours a week for 20 years via luck anything.

And yes, get rid of government waste.  



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Chrkeller said:

Lucky spawn?  I didn't graduate cum laude and get an advanced degree in chemistry + work 50 hours a week for 20 years via luck anything.

And yes, get rid of government waste.  

Uh yes you did. 

You were lucky to be born.

You were lucky to be born not overly handicapped. 

You were lucky to not be born in a different country where things would be substantially harder, if it were possible at all. 

You were lucky to be born (at least reasonably) intelligent.

Working hard to do something, doesn't erase the billion advantages you had.

I worked very hard for my life too, but I recognize that I'm fortunate to have great parents, fortunate to have a good family that was able to support me, fortunate to have good genes that helped me, fortunate that I exist at all. None of those were any choice of mine. 

Last edited by the-pi-guy - on 17 May 2024

the-pi-guy said:
Chrkeller said:

Lucky spawn?  I didn't graduate cum laude and get an advanced degree in chemistry + work 50 hours a week for 20 years via luck anything.

And yes, get rid of government waste.  

Uh yes you did. 

You were lucky to be born.

You were lucky to be born not overly handicapped. 

You were lucky to not be born in a different country where things would be substantially harder, if it were possible at all. 

You were lucky to be born (at least reasonably) intelligent.

Working hard to do something, doesn't erase the billion advantages you had.

And none of the luck erases hours of studying, working many times to 10 pm, giving up weekends for more work and saving 20% my entire life (even when money was tight and I went without).

The 'success is luck' is liberal horseshit.

Most people earn their success, like I have.  



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firebush03 said:
Ryuu96 said:

[You are correct in stating that Russia has no excuse in invading another country. We agree on this. So let’s focus on where we disagree: Do you believe that we should consider the Ukrainian-Russian Conflict from a perspective which examines what led to Russia committing such an inexcusable deed? In my opinion, I’d argue so. It’s good to understand the underlying root cause of an issue, otherwise we won’t be able to most sufficiently address it, as well history will inevitably repeat itself. I don’t think you want another war to emerge which could’ve potentially been avoided had one country taken different steps to address the issue. Do you disagree with these statements? I’m laying some groundwork here, hear with me. I’ll get to the facts later on.]

[This is a sign that you have underlying motives for not wanting to consider alternative perspectives, for otherwise you’ll view yourself as being a victim blamer. Drop this perspective, and our conversation will truly be productive. Do you believe yourself to be rational in your thoughts? If so, there’s no need to come up with labels for alternative beliefs. The evidence you have behind your believes should be sufficient in defending you claims.] that it's Ukraine's fault [I retract all my prior statements for they were not thoroughly fact-checked, hence might be incorrect. We can think of this as a “reset” to our discussion.] for being invaded because it wanted to join NATO. I'm not an idiot who needs people to feed me lines, I can formulate my own thoughts and opinions. You'd even find me criticising US's approach to this war but once again you've ignored all that. [I haven’t ignored it. I specifically told you in the past that I’m not going to waste my time reading your giant articles of information. You refused to meet me where I was at, and so I chose not to read them. So I don’t even know your stances.]

[Okay, but does this mean we should approach all conflict from this black-and-white lens? Because at the end of the day, it is simply a lens of perspective. You can choose to view it from the lens of “Putin = Bad!”, or you could consider the more nuanced perspective of examining the interests of both sides.]

[Zelenski wants peace talks. The U.S. shuts them down. I don’t include Ukraine for this reason. I will provide evidence behind this assertion later today.]

[Lots of countries in Europe are having their hand forced into the conflict, though I will not deny there are many — especially those along Russia’s border — who are now strong supporters of Ukraine in this conflict. However, America does objective have the most power, for they are the global superpower.]

"You are correct in stating that Russia has no excuse in invading another country. We agree on this."

Great, so stop making excuses for Russia's invasion and blaming anyone else but Russia.

Do you believe that we should consider the Ukrainian-Russian Conflict from a perspective which examines what led to Russia committing such an inexcusable deed?

The reason is a land grab, as simple as that, an attempt to restore Soviet Union's glory, as Russia themselves have alluded to and Russian State Media has parroted, Ukraine as a country does not exist and always belonged to Russia according to them. NATO is not the reason for the invasion but it is the thing that could stop an invasion.

I don't give a shit about the NATO excuse as a reason, I don't get to fly over to America and punch you in the face because I claim I feel threatened by you.

"As well history will inevitably repeat itself."

  • Like when Russia invaded Crimea and the world did nothing ultimately leading them to attempting to take the rest of Ukraine?
  • Like when Russia invaded Georgia and the world did nothing?
  • Like when Russia invaded Chechnya and the world did nothing?

"Never again" is a motto used after WW2 because we must not let history repeat itself. People believe that standing up to evil like Russia brings us closer to WW3 but I would argue the opposite, sticking our heads in the sand and ignoring evil only allows it to grow stronger and more embolden. When it knows that nobody will stand up to it, it will become even more greedy. The last time America tried to ignore a major conflict, they found that eventually, evil came to them, when Japan bombed Pearl Harbour.

"I don’t think you want another war to emerge which could’ve potentially been avoided had one country taken different steps to address the issue."

Another war will almost certainly happen if Russia takes Ukraine, Russia right now is in war economy mode, its entire country is focused on one thing now, that is war, Putin's ambitions don't stop with Ukraine, he has already laid the groundwork with Georgia (see Abkhazia and South Ossetia) and Moldova (see Transnistria) not to mention Russian officials routinely threaten Baltic States.

Same logic they use against all former Soviet-States is that they don't exist or never officially left the Soviet Union.

There is nothing Ukraine could have done to avoid Russia invading them and in case you aren't aware, the invasion started in 2014 with Crimea, another time Russia justified as invading because "they never officially gave it over to Ukraine" even though, they did, Lol.

The only way Ukraine can avoid further conflict with Russia is by joining NATO.

We've already been through this shit before, Russia invaded Crimea and people like you were screaming "Just let Russia have it! We need peace!" and so our response was pathetic and then in 2022, Russia decides it's time to invade the rest of Ukraine, despite the fact that Ukraine couldn't join NATO because they were already in active conflict with Russia.

People like you are so utterly naïve that you think the agreement which Russia wants with Ukraine (de-militarisation, a block from joining NATO) won't just result in Russia reforming their battered army and trying again a few years later to take more of Ukraine, and when they've taken more, I'm sure people like you once again will scream "WE NEED PEACE, IT'S NATO'S FAULT. LET RUSSIA HAVE IT" and Russia will gain even more land, bit by bit, invasion by invasion, they will gain land, why do I know this? Because they've literally already done it!

I consider you a victim blamer because you are saying it's Ukraine's fault for wanting to be in NATO while Ukrainians are being slaughtered everyday.

The rest of this section of your post is confusing the hell out of me.

Zelenski wants peace talks. The U.S. shuts them down.

Once again, acting like Ukraine has no agency. Zelenskyy* abandoned peace talks with Russia a while ago because they were bullshit "peace" talks which required full capitulation by Ukraine, they abandoned the peace talks because Russia continued committing atrocities during them, they abandoned peace talks because how can they now make peace with Russia after Bucha? After Mariupol? After Bakhmut? After Russia has slaughtered thousands of Ukrainians, destroyed their home, only for Zelenskyy to turn around and say "you all died for nothing, Russia wins"

There you go, from Zelenskyy himself. Once again you spread nonsense Russian propaganda.

Let me use my example earlier, if someone broke into your neighbours home, slaughtered half his family, then demanded the neighbour accept peace talks wherein the murderer would be given half the house and a promise by the neighbour not to go to the police and surrender all his weapons, would you be telling him to accept that offer and blaming him for not accepting it?

Lots of countries in Europe are having their hand forced into the conflict, though I will not deny there are many — especially those along Russia’s border — who are now strong supporters of Ukraine in this conflict. However, America does objective have the most power, for they are the global superpower.

I can assure you, the Baltics and most of Europe does not give a fuck what America wants in this regard.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 17 May 2024

Chrkeller said:
the-pi-guy said:

Uh yes you did. 

You were lucky to be born.

You were lucky to be born not overly handicapped. 

You were lucky to not be born in a different country where things would be substantially harder, if it were possible at all. 

You were lucky to be born (at least reasonably) intelligent.

Working hard to do something, doesn't erase the billion advantages you had.

And none of the luck erases hours of studying, working many times to 10 pm, giving up weekends for more work and saving 20% my entire life (even when money was tight and I went without).

The 'success is luck' is liberal horseshit.

Most people earn their success, like I have.  

I did not say success is luck.  Success is not 100% luck or 100% hard work. 

You are the product of both. 


You did not birth yourself, you didn't change your own diaper. 

You didn't choose your parents, or your genes. None of that was your own hard work.  

Everyone in the world is a mix of both circumstance and their own work. Without one or the other, you wouldn't exist.



Some Estonian would come up to Firebush and say "I hate Russia, I hate what they've done to my country and my neighbours" and Firebush would turn around and be like "I'm sure Russia has its reasons for constantly threatening you, stop overreacting, also leave NATO as you're threatening Russia" or he wouldn't even see the Estonian because all he sees is America.

Sick of Americans taking the quite frankly insulting attitude that America controls all of Europe and Europe can't think for itself. The Baltics, Poland, Czech Republic are all brainless idiots with no agency of their own. Despite the fact that many in Europe are taking a publicly different stance to America as I've already posted, multiple countries in Europe want to allow Ukraine to shoot Russian territory with Western Weapons, America does not. Multiple in Europe are considering troops in Ukraine, America instantly shot it down and it wasn't USA who broke multiple taboos, it was UK.

I've literally argued with more Americans defending Russia that Russians themselves.

How Firebush sees Europe.

Just stop with your arrogant and quite frankly offensive nonsense.