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Forums - Politics Discussion - Biden vs Trump 2024 Political Platforms, Policies and Issues

zorg1000 said:
The_Yoda said:

Ah yes the same bill that took the taxable amount of social security from 50 to 85% (funny you didn't mention that) and also wrote the budgets for 1998, 1999 and 2000 (oh wait that was still Clinton and the Republicans that did the budget).

That bill did play a part but even after its passage deficits were still projected.  Spending cuts, a surging dotcom economy that few saw coming, and extra money from Social Security were also contributing factors: the economy being one of the biggest.

I would expect nothing less from a die hard than to ignore who wrote and passed the budgets, ignore the emerging economy that helped produced an influx of income for the government all to pat their party on the back while giving no credit to the other side. Myopic views like this are part of what is fueling the great divide.

 

Why is it funny that I didn’t mention that? I didn’t mention any of the specific provisions that were imposed like raising the top marginal tax rate from 31% to 39.6%, raising the top corporate tax from 34% to 38%, Alternative Minimum Tax increased from 24% to 28%, 4.3 cent increase for fuel taxes, limit on itemized deductions, expanded earned income tax credit, got rid of the income cap on Medicare taxes, and reduced military spending. It was a bill meant to balance budgets by increasing revenue and reducing spending and it did exactly that.

I’m not really sure what “gotcha” you’re trying to hit me with. Yes, of course it couldn’t happen without the booming economy and yes, Republicans were more moderate and easier to compromise with in the 90s compared to today’s MAGA wing.

Republican presidents oversaw massive tax cuts in the 80s, 00s & 10s and in my opinion, if we had a Republican president in the 90s we would have gotten another major tax cut bill that would have further contributed to the debt rather than the tax increases we saw under a Democratic president that helped balance the budget.

Because when I mentioned that a Republican House and Senate had the last balanced budget you shifted to the 93 bill in what appeared to be an attempt to discredit what I pointed out.  You also seemed to be on the "tax the rich" kick when you failed to mention the changes to SS and the extra gas tax that hurt the working poor.

From my point of view both sides suck.  Its just the democrats remind me more of this than the republicans:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”
Alexander Fraser Tytler


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Well it looks like it will be trump vs Biden now with the court delays



BiON!@ 

The_Yoda said:
zorg1000 said:

Why is it funny that I didn’t mention that? I didn’t mention any of the specific provisions that were imposed like raising the top marginal tax rate from 31% to 39.6%, raising the top corporate tax from 34% to 38%, Alternative Minimum Tax increased from 24% to 28%, 4.3 cent increase for fuel taxes, limit on itemized deductions, expanded earned income tax credit, got rid of the income cap on Medicare taxes, and reduced military spending. It was a bill meant to balance budgets by increasing revenue and reducing spending and it did exactly that.

I’m not really sure what “gotcha” you’re trying to hit me with. Yes, of course it couldn’t happen without the booming economy and yes, Republicans were more moderate and easier to compromise with in the 90s compared to today’s MAGA wing.

Republican presidents oversaw massive tax cuts in the 80s, 00s & 10s and in my opinion, if we had a Republican president in the 90s we would have gotten another major tax cut bill that would have further contributed to the debt rather than the tax increases we saw under a Democratic president that helped balance the budget.

Because when I mentioned that a Republican House and Senate had the last balanced budget you shifted to the 93 bill in what appeared to be an attempt to discredit what I pointed out.  You also seemed to be on the "tax the rich" kick when you failed to mention the changes to SS and the extra gas tax that hurt the working poor.

From my point of view both sides suck.  Its just the democrats remind me more of this than the republicans:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”
― Alexander Fraser Tytler

I “shifted” to that bill because if you take those exact same budgets from the late 90s and take away the increased revenue provided by that bill than those budgets all of a sudden become deficits.

Yes, that bill did have certain provisions that increased taxes for low/middle income Americans and that sucks but I look at the bill as a whole and it seems like it was the wealthy & corporations that took the biggest hit. I can say the thing in reverse for the 2017 tax cuts, it had certain provisions that helped everyday Americans like increasing the child tax credit, however something like 80% of the benefits went to the wealthy and corporations so I view it overall as negative.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Robert_Downey_Jr. said:
the-pi-guy said:

So you think that:

1.) Russia, out of nowhere, started planned this invasion within a few months of getting Biden getting elected?

2.) Russia who had been talking about Ukraine for years, suddenly decided not to invade during Trump's presidency, despite the fact that Trump was incredibly soft on Russia, praising Putin.

We're just going to ignore the conflict that continued during the Trump administration.

>More than 110 Ukrainian service members were killed in 2019.

https://www.rferl.org/a/two-ukrainian-soldiers-killed-over-bloody-weekend-in-donbas/30413810.html

We're going to just ignore that Putin continued to push on some of these issues during the Trump administration.  

>President Putin first suggested in 2019 that Russian-speaking residents might suffer a Srebrenica-like massacre if Ukraine regained full control of Donbas without guarantees.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56678665

No, no it must be Biden's fault. 

Obviously he was planning it.  Not sure why you're focusing on that and not when he ACTUALLY invaded 

Are you aware of the difference between correlation & causation? By your logic we should blame Trump for covid. Happened on his watch, case closed right?



Shtinamin_ said:
Personal EconomyBidenTrump
Fund Social ServicesLower Taxes
Enable student loan reliefBigger Paychecks
Reduce gas pump pricesReduce the price of gasoline, diesel and natural gas
Unleash the production of domestic energy resources
More jobs for American workers

HealthcareBidenTrump
Resuscitate child tax credit to $3,000 for children over six, and $3,600 for children under sixRestore Medical Freedom
Enforce Build Back Better & Inflation Reduction ActEnd surprise medical billing
Limit the price of childcare to 7% of most families' incomeIncrease fairness through price transparency
Medicare recipients will pay $35 for insulinReduce price of prescription drugs and health insurance premiums
Protect and defend the Affordable Care ActProtect Medicare, Social Security and patients with pre-existing conditions
Access to gender-affirming careEnable the US to no longer rely on China for essential medical goods

National              Self-SufficiencyBidenTrump
Reverse offshoring manufacturingImplement a 4-year National Reshoring Plan (No longer rely on China for national security goods and more)
Ban Chinese ownership of all critical infrastructure in the US
Never again be at the mercy of a foreign supplier of energy

National EconomyBidenTrump

Implement a Billionaire Minimum Income Tax (1/100 of the top 1% of Americans will play a minimum 20% tax rate)

Bring back our supply chain
Reduce the deficitEliminate the Green New Deal
Enforce Infrastructure Investment and Jobs ActBuild America into the manufacturing superpower of the world
Enforce Chips and Science Act
Increase public-private partnerships through the World Bank and IMF

Foreign PolicyBidenTrump
Defend the NATO alliancePromote energy security for our friends around the world
Restore our standing in the world and American leadership abroad

ImmigrationBidenTrump
Increase funding and resources for border patrol and enforcementShut down the Biden border disaster
Provide a path for people in the US to apply for legal status and citizenshipDeliver a merit-based immigration system that protects American labor and promotes American values
Create a smoother and expanded visa process for foreign graduates of American universitiesRestore Remain in Mexico
Eliminate asylum fraud
Re-end catch-and-release

CrimeBidenTrump
Restore Roe v WadeDeputize the National Guard and local law enforcement to assist with rapidly removing illegal alien gang members and criminals
Enact universal background checksRevitalize police departments and reclaim safety, dignity and peace for law-abiding citizens
Opposes "Defund the Police"Funding to hire and retain police officers
Provide additional mental and social services fundingStrengthen qualified immunity and other protections for police officers
Promote community policing and violence intervention effortsSurge federal prosecutors and the National Guard into high-crime communities
Put violent offenders and career criminals behind bars
Increase penalties for assaults on law enforcement
Ban members of Congress with insider information from trading stocks
Lifetime ban on lobbying by former member of Congress and cabinet members
Conduct a top-to-bottom overhaul of federal bureaucracies and Congress to clean out corruption

US PoliticiansBidenTrump
Add a Constitutional amendment to impose term limits on members of Congress

Drugs & TraffickersBidenTrump
Take down the drug cartels
Impose a total navel embargo on cartels
Order the Department of Defense to inflict maximum damage on cartel leadership and operations
Designate cartels as foreign terrorist organizations
Choke off cartel access to the global financial system
Get full cooperation of neighboring governments to dismantle the cartels
Expose every bribe and kickback that allows these criminal networks to preserve their reign
Ask Congress to ensure that drug smugglers and traffickers can receive the Death penalty
Drug kingpins and traffickers will never sleep soundly again

Military & WarBidenTrump
Support UkraineHelp people stop dying from war
Support IsraelDefend America against all threats
Protect America against all dangers
Keep America out of unnecessary foreign wars
Remove radical left ideology out of the military
Rehire every patriot who was unjustly fired
Protect our people from the threat of nuclear weapons and hypersonic missiles
Build a state-of-the-art-next-generation missile defense shield
Fight to serve our veterans with better care and benefits than ever before

EducationBidenTrump
Triple Title I fundingCut federal funding to any school or program pushing Critical Race Theory or gender ideology
Offer universal preschoolOpen civil rights investigations into any school district that has engaged in race-based discrimination
Offer two years of free community college tuitionVeto the effort to weaponize civics education
Restrict transgender women in competitive women sportsKeep men out of women's sports
Appoint an anti-book ban coordinatorCreate a credentialing body to certify teachers who embrace patriotic values
Enable protections for transgender studentsReward states and school districts that abolish teacher tenure for grades K-12, adopt Merit Pay, cut the number of school administration, adopt a Parental Bill of Rights, and implement the direct election of school principles by the parents

Constitutional RightsBidenTrump
Increasing scrutiny of sales in gun shows and other unlicensed venuesNominate highly qualified prosecutors, judges, and justices who believe in enforcing the law, not their own political agenda
Implement a ban on assault weaponsDefend the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms
Protect the LGBT communityUphold religious liberty, including the Constitutional right to pray in public schools
Protection and Preservation of American DemocracyFiring any federal bureaucrat who has engaged in censoring the lawful speech of American citizens, banning taxpayer funds from being used to categorize lawful speech for purposes of illicit censorship, banning federal agencies from censoring speech, stopping federal funding for all non-profits and academic programs engaged in censorship, passing a digital bill of rights, and enacting landmark legislation to drastically limit the ability of big social media platforms to restrict free speech
Restore Free Speech
Reform election laws to verify the identity and eligibility of all voters
Pass a bold range of critical election integrity measures, including the banning of unsecure drop boxes and ballot harvesting
State and local officials cannot be permitted to make illegal and unconstitutional changes to election procedures without the required approval by a state legislature
Ban private money from pouring into local election offices

Sources:
Joe Biden 2024 Campaign
Joe Biden Campaign page
Donald Trump 2024 Campaign

Which one from both presidents was surprising to read?



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

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zorg1000 said:
The_Yoda said:

Because when I mentioned that a Republican House and Senate had the last balanced budget you shifted to the 93 bill in what appeared to be an attempt to discredit what I pointed out.  You also seemed to be on the "tax the rich" kick when you failed to mention the changes to SS and the extra gas tax that hurt the working poor.

From my point of view both sides suck.  Its just the democrats remind me more of this than the republicans:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”
― Alexander Fraser Tytler

I “shifted” to that bill because if you take those exact same budgets from the late 90s and take away the increased revenue provided by that bill than those budgets all of a sudden become deficits.

Yes, that bill did have certain provisions that increased taxes for low/middle income Americans and that sucks but I look at the bill as a whole and it seems like it was the wealthy & corporations that took the biggest hit. I can say the thing in reverse for the 2017 tax cuts, it had certain provisions that helped everyday Americans like increasing the child tax credit, however something like 80% of the benefits went to the wealthy and corporations so I view it overall as negative.

According to the Clinton's own CBO projections you are wrong.  The 93 bill took the projection from a 327B ish projection down to a 200B deficit projection.  Did the extra revenue from the bill help?  Yes. Deficits were still projected though. What did a good portion of the heavy lifting however was increased revenues from an emerging economic sector and spending cuts.  That tipped things from a balanced budget to a surplus.



The_Yoda said:
zorg1000 said:

I “shifted” to that bill because if you take those exact same budgets from the late 90s and take away the increased revenue provided by that bill than those budgets all of a sudden become deficits.

Yes, that bill did have certain provisions that increased taxes for low/middle income Americans and that sucks but I look at the bill as a whole and it seems like it was the wealthy & corporations that took the biggest hit. I can say the thing in reverse for the 2017 tax cuts, it had certain provisions that helped everyday Americans like increasing the child tax credit, however something like 80% of the benefits went to the wealthy and corporations so I view it overall as negative.

According to the Clinton's own CBO projections you are wrong.  The 93 bill took the projection from a 327B ish projection down to a 200B deficit projection.  Did the extra revenue from the bill help?  Yes. Deficits were still projected though. What did a good portion of the heavy lifting however was increased revenues from an emerging economic sector and spending cuts.  That tipped things from a balanced budget to a surplus.

Alright, I’ll concede, I’m putting too much emphasis on that bill. However, I do believe we are kind of getting into semantics. My overall point being that Republicans are not nearly as fiscally responsible as they pretend to be. Nixon, Ford, HW Bush, Reagan, W Bush and Trump never had a balanced budget, even in years when they had trifectas.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

I am learning more about the canditates on this forum thread than on the news networks.



BiON!@ 

hellobion2 said:

I am learning more about the canditates on this forum thread than on the news networks.

What’s something you learned about President Biden? And President Trump?



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

So I just read that the upcoming Super Bowl will be manipulated to make the Kansas City Chiefs win in order to boost Taylor Swift's popularity even further, which then in turn will make her say to vote for the candidate of the democrats, so Biden is going to win the election. Apparently this is being reported on Fox News, not just some backyard blog.

Americans are truly a special kind of special.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.