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Forums - Politics Discussion - Biden vs Trump 2024 Political Platforms, Policies and Issues

RolStoppable said:
Chrkeller said:

So me saying you aren't reading my posts is equivalent to you calling me a troll + liar + openly questioning my intelligence?

Sure.  Whatever you say champ.  I don't have the words to even describe how silly you are being.

Calling me a troll was wrong.  Calling me a lair was wrong.  Basically telling me I'm unintelligent is wrong.

Take responsibility for your actions.

You made this personal because you've lost the argument. 

It's easy to make yourself look less offensive than the other party when you leave out most of the things you said. Being more covert makes the casual observer miss what's been going on, but this is a small forum with low activity, so... it may not work so well.

What I found interesting is that you said that you can't disclose your full opinion here despite the facts, according to you, supporting your side. It's interesting because usually when someone says that they can't express their opinion here, it's because they actually know that they don't have facts to back them up. They also tend to be on the MAGA train, so the logical end for their fear is that they know that they are bigots and that gets moderated. In your case, however, I believe you when you say that you don't belong to the MAGA crowd. So your fear to express your full opinion makes me curious.

Are you afraid of mobs despite being intelligent? I for one enjoy situations where I have the arguments and data to back me up and a mob comes at me; I just wreck the whole lot and months later when the dust has settled and such a thread gets bumped for one or the other reason, onlookers have a different perspective on what happened. It's a shame that you are wasting such an opportunity. Or maybe you aren't wasting anything, because you realize this isn't child's play like arguing against Soundwave's crazy insistence that mobile gaming can challenge console gaming.

You know what zorg was right about? You ignore and cherry-pick. His post that you replied towas about more than the bickering about personal attacks, but you focused entirely on that to make it easy for yourself. When someone does that, they've likely lost the argument and attempt to reframe the battleground.

Oh, and to conclude, I am so ferocious that I alone qualify as a mob already. Consider yourself ganged up upon. Run for the hills.

Nope, not at all.  Missed it completely.  

I run an entire research team and still have a lot of career in front of me.  I watch what I say online because you never know who is reading and how it will be interpreted.

There are certain topics that I just will not touch and keep to myself.  

I spoked about this pages ago.  The example I used is there is not a chance I would show up to work with a Trump sticker.  It is just a illustration, but serves the point.  Take Isreal and Palastine....  yep, I will not comment on the topic, regardless of facts.  

Did I focus on his attacks?  Yeah I did.  I won't converse with someone whom has no respect.  

What he did was wrong and everyone knows it.  But it is ok because sides. 

As for your ferocity, lol.  I'm not even sure how you want me to interpret that.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 20 July 2024

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zorg1000 said:

The more you post in this thread, the more I’m  convinced you’re nothing but a troll, you probably haven’t lived in multiple countries like you claim, probably aren’t a millionaire like you claim and probably aren’t a scientist like you claim. Do you know why? Globe trotting, rich scientists are smart people and you’ve proven not to be because you can’t even respond to people on a video game forum without cherry picking their arguments.

Eh I disagree pretty heavily with this. 

Plenty of genuinely experienced people overestimate their experiences.

Someone who has gone to the doctor for lots of minor things in different countries, could absolutely make assumptions on what the healthcare differences would be for major things. "Based on my experience, it takes a few hours to get into a clinic for a cold in the US, and several days in the UK. So I'd assume it would be much worse if someone got cancer." People can pretty easily erroneously overestimate how much data they really have. They might not realize how different healthcare systems treat different diseases. Or even how different things could be with different regions. Finding a specialist while living in the middle of North Dakota is going to be a lot harder than finding a specialist in New York City for example.  

Someone who drives a lot for their job across almost every state, might feel like they can make a judgment call on what road conditions are like in each state. Despite the fact that it's going to be extremely difficult to get a typical driving experience in each state. There's hundreds if not thousands of miles of roads going through all kinds of neighborhoods. Those experiences are variable depending on the year with construction, weather, etc. 

To actually get a typical experience, you'd need to set up some standards, figure out some way to do an extensive survey, etc. But people with a million miles on the road would absolutely think they have a pretty good handle on what states have the best/worst roads. 

Plenty of smart people are very clueless outside of their area of expertise. 

Ben Carson, from what I understand is supposed to be an absolutely brilliant neurosurgeon, like one of the best in the entire US. That doesn't mean though that he's familiar with economics or politics. He might not even be familiar with how the healthcare system is for poor people or for middle class people. 

A lot of this is made worse by people assuming that since they're smart, they must understand what these things are like. "I'm really smart so I should be able to understand economics really well, even though I didn't spend 8 years studying it like you did."

Also made worse, because people generally overestimate how much they actually understand and remember things. Lots of studies show that you forget and lose most of your understanding the first time you learn something. Like math students tend to not fully understand basic algebra concepts until they've taken Calculus.

Anecdotally, I had a required class where we learned how to do taxes. I've seen multiple of my high school classmates talk about how we should have had classes like that. 

Plenty of rich people are dumb. 

Elon Musk for example is absolutely rich, and yet it seems like he's taken it upon himself to act like a teenage forum crap poster over the past couple of years.

And every scientist is still human, and a lot of them easily overestimate how things work. Peer review exists for a number of reasons, anyone can make mistakes.

Last edited by the-pi-guy - on 20 July 2024

No offence to Chrkeller but the NHS conversation pretty much convinced to me he is rich, Lol.



the-pi-guy said:
zorg1000 said:

The more you post in this thread, the more I’m  convinced you’re nothing but a troll, you probably haven’t lived in multiple countries like you claim, probably aren’t a millionaire like you claim and probably aren’t a scientist like you claim. Do you know why? Globe trotting, rich scientists are smart people and you’ve proven not to be because you can’t even respond to people on a video game forum without cherry picking their arguments.

Eh I disagree pretty heavily with this. 

Plenty of genuinely experienced people overestimate their experiences.

Someone who has gone to the doctor for lots of minor things in different countries, could absolutely make assumptions on what the healthcare differences would be for major things. "Based on my experience, it takes a few hours to get into a clinic for a cold in the US, and several days in the UK. So I'd assume it would be much worse if someone got cancer." People can pretty easily erroneously overestimate how much data they really have. They might not realize how different healthcare systems treat different diseases. Or even how different things could be with different regions. Finding a specialist while living in the middle of North Dakota is going to be a lot harder than finding a specialist in New York City for example.  

Someone who drives a lot for their job across almost every state, might feel like they can make a judgment call on what road conditions are like in each state. Despite the fact that it's going to be extremely difficult to get a typical driving experience in each state. There's hundreds if not thousands of miles of roads going through all kinds of neighborhoods. Those experiences are variable depending on the year with construction, weather, etc. 

To actually get a typical experience, you'd need to set up some standards, figure out some way to do an extensive survey, etc. But people with a million miles on the road would absolutely think they have a pretty good handle on what states have the best/worst roads. 

Plenty of smart people are very clueless outside of their area of expertise. 

Ben Carson, from what I understand is supposed to be an absolutely brilliant neurosurgeon, like one of the best in the entire US. That doesn't mean though that he's familiar with economics or politics. He might not even be familiar with how the healthcare system is for poor people or for middle class people. 

A lot of this is made worse by people assuming that since they're smart, they must understand what these things are like. "I'm really smart so I should be able to understand economics really well, even though I didn't spend 8 years studying it like you did."

Also made worse, because people generally overestimate how much they actually understand and remember things. Lots of studies show that you forget and lose most of your understanding the first time you learn something. Like math students tend to not fully understand basic algebra concepts until they've taken Calculus.

Anecdotally, I had a required class where we learned how to do taxes. I've seen multiple of my high school classmates talk about how we should have had classes like that. 

Plenty of rich people are dumb. 

Elon Musk for example is absolutely rich, and yet it seems like he's taken it upon himself to act like a teenage forum crap poster over the past couple of years.

And every scientist is still human, and a lot of them easily overestimate how things work. 

Good points and I’ll admit I was probably a bit worked up when I wrote that. I try to put time and effort into my responses and try to use data/sources to back up my opinions so it gets frustrating when I make long posts with multiple points and the responses are short, vague and ignore large portions of what I wrote.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Ryuu96 said:

I'm seeing a lot of "Drop Biden!" but not a lot of "and put forth Harris!" which is a problem. What should happen is Biden should step aside, immediately endorse Harris. Hakeem, Schumer and dozens of other House/Senate members should publicly get behind her, Obama/Pelosi/Hillary won't hurt either. Everyone else should immediately shut up and back Harris 100%. There should be no open convention, they don't have the time to fuck around attacking each other and licking bitter wounds after they lose instead of focusing on Trump only for Harris to ultimately win the damn thing anyway and waste everyone's time. Right now, I'm not convinced that will happen but maybe they'll prove me wrong and once Biden steps aside, they'll be more like the French Left and less like the Tory Party.

Harris is definitely the most common name I keep seeing surface among potential replacements and the polling bears out that she's the most popular Biden alternative the Democrats have at the moment. It's also the easiest and most natural transition to make to have the VP take over the campaign. She has the experience and the name recognition. I see no plausible way in which whatever process is decided on wouldn't result in her being the new candidate. Would anyone even run against her in the "mini-primary" that's being talked about as a possibility?

I don't buy the "there's no time" line of argument here. You're British. The UK recently announced, threw together, and concluded an election in the span of a month, complete with a power transition. That's how much time there is left before the Democratic National Convention. There's plenty of time. What there isn't much time left for is figuring out whether Biden is staying or going. The stupid early virtual delegate vote is scheduled for next week, so if Biden is going to drop out it must be made to happen this week (so you'll forgive my vocalness). The dam must break this week ahead or never. I am fully on board with it happening because frankly, it's obvious there will be no second term for Biden either way. He can drop out or he can lose to Trump, but he cannot get re-elected, that much is exceedingly clear. Any change in the ticket is risky, but leaving it as is portends certain defeat.



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shavenferret said:

Harris has problems as a viable candidate, perhaps not as bad as Biden but enough to make her less viable.  Have you ever heard her talk?  She talks like a schizophrenic person with her word salad thing.  Something ain't right with her and I couldn't see a president that is not able to orally express themselves without coming across like they have a cognitive impairment.  

If you really think that then you watch way too much Fox News. I'd urge you to go back and rewatch her debate with Mike Pence four years ago. She's absolutely capable of rising to the challenge in terms of communicating effectively.



sundin13 said:
Jaicee said:

I don't get the people still "ridin' with Biden" at this point.

Eh, I get it. Biden isn't a good candidate but there are no good options right now. It is entirely reasonable to believe that this whole push to replace him is going to do more harm than good in the long run. Ideally, he would have announced last year that he wasn't going to run for reelection, but we don't live in that world so we have to take the path that has the greatest chance of beating Trump. It is arguable that at this point "Ridin' with Biden" is that path, especially if you don't think he will drop out. If Biden stays in the race, we've created a monumental mess for ourselves...

Personally, I think he should drop out, but I don't know which path has the greatest odds of success.

The polls generally suggest she'd have a better chance than Biden, at least at this point. Besides that though, I can see certain definite advantages that Harris has over Biden, including...

1) The obvious: she's not 81 years old and won't be having any 90-minute senior moments.

2) I've seen her on the campaign trail (on YouTube) and she is a more effective communicator than her boss, which is the metric of efficacy that matters here. AND...

3) Just as importantly really -- and I don't think this point is considered enough -- she approaches the campaign with a different, and better, issue focus. Biden has sought to make this election generally about economic policy, infamously coining and trying in vain to popularize the term "Bidenomics" as the centerpiece thereof, as though the public were happy with the current cost of living. Harris, by contrast, more often has a tendency to center issues like abortion rights and the future of the democratic experiment in this country when she speaks: issues on which the Democratic ticket's stance is actually popular. She centers issues that are winning ones for Democrats more than she tries to persuade people that the rent isn't too damn high. That's just smarter.

The real challenge for Harris, should she become the nominee, will be resisting her natural temptation, as a discernibly stauncher social liberal than Biden (if one pays close attention), to sound like a PBS News Hour broadcast and frame all issues as identity issues and instead embrace a bit more universalism than may be instinctive to her. She can be, in other words, the losing 2020 candidate who didn't even make it to the first primary vote or she can be the woman who made mincemeat out of Mike Pence in the VP debate. That is a choice and a metric of maturity. The point for our purposes here though is that she actually has a path to victory available to her, unlike the current president.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 21 July 2024

Jaicee said:
Ryuu96 said:

I'm seeing a lot of "Drop Biden!" but not a lot of "and put forth Harris!" which is a problem. What should happen is Biden should step aside, immediately endorse Harris. Hakeem, Schumer and dozens of other House/Senate members should publicly get behind her, Obama/Pelosi/Hillary won't hurt either. Everyone else should immediately shut up and back Harris 100%. There should be no open convention, they don't have the time to fuck around attacking each other and licking bitter wounds after they lose instead of focusing on Trump only for Harris to ultimately win the damn thing anyway and waste everyone's time. Right now, I'm not convinced that will happen but maybe they'll prove me wrong and once Biden steps aside, they'll be more like the French Left and less like the Tory Party.

Harris is definitely the most common name I keep seeing surface among potential replacements and the polling bears out that she's the most popular Biden alternative the Democrats have at the moment. It's also the easiest and most natural transition to make to have the VP take over the campaign. She has the experience and the name recognition. I see no plausible way in which whatever process is decided on wouldn't result in her being the new candidate. Would anyone even run against her in the "mini-primary" that's being talked about as a possibility?

I don't buy the "there's no time" line of argument here. You're British. The UK recently announced, threw together, and concluded an election in the span of a month, complete with a power transition. That's how much time there is left before the Democratic National Convention. There's plenty of time. What there isn't much time left for is figuring out whether Biden is staying or going. The stupid early virtual delegate vote is scheduled for next week, so if Biden is going to drop out it must be made to happen this week (so you'll forgive my vocalness). The dam must break this week ahead or never. I am fully on board with it happening because frankly, it's obvious there will be no second term for Biden either way. He can drop out or he can lose to Trump, but he cannot get re-elected, that much is exceedingly clear. Any change in the ticket is risky, but leaving it as is portends certain defeat.

I absolutely agree with everything that you've said in the first paragraph but I still see "rumours" of the Democrats wanting a "mini-primary/convention" and AOC also said that many are also wanting Harris to go as well, so that's where my concern comes from, I need to see all big name politicians come out with "Harris SHOULD be the replacement if Biden steps down", if Schumer/Pelosi/Hakeem back Harris then the rest should fall in line, endorsement from the Obama's wouldn't hurt either and of course, Biden needs to endorse Harris and then we can just move forward united behind Harris.

I really don't want to see a "mini-primary", it would be a waste of everyone's time only for Harris to win anyway, we only have ~4 months left, instead of focusing on Trump, Democrats will be talking shit about each other, media will be labelling it as Democrats in chaos, the talk would become that Biden/Democrats don't even have faith in his own VP and that's why they're running a mini-primary, it just doesn't seem like it has many upsides aside from "hey look, Harris was democratically elected" which I'm not sure many would actually give a shit about at this stage in the game, Lol.

She's the VP. This is what a VP is meant for. People voted for the Biden-Harris ticket already, if Biden steps down then Harris should immediately be the nominee with the backing of everyone, none of this mini-primary nonsense, a united Democrat Party leading into the DNC. People will run against her, politicians, they can't help themselves even when they have no chance, Lol. We can't be licking bitter wounds leading into the DNC from the losers.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 21 July 2024


An exclusive new Free Press poll of likely Michigan voters shows former President Donald Trump has taken a notable 7-percentage-point lead over incumbent President Joe Biden in the state, a result certain to further worry Democrats already pushing for Biden to abandon his reelection bid.

According to the poll Biden is losing in Detroit.....

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Chrkeller said:

An exclusive new Free Press poll of likely Michigan voters shows former President Donald Trump has taken a notable 7-percentage-point lead over incumbent President Joe Biden in the state, a result certain to further worry Democrats already pushing for Biden to abandon his reelection bid.

According to the poll Biden is losing in Detroit.....

That 7 percentage lead, is mostly due to how Biden is handling Israel/Palestine and outside of someone like AOC any democrat candidate is going to face that hurdle. I think come election day, the pro Palestine voters are going to vote for Biden or whoever the nominee is but right this minute they are saying they aren't or are non committed