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Forums - Politics Discussion - Israel-Hamas war, Gaza genocide

SvennoJ on 11 July 2024

What is going on with ceasefire talks?

Negotiations are being held behind closed doors, but it is believed mediators are discussing a proposal outlined by Biden in late May.

The plan has three main stages:
  • Phase 1: six-week ceasefire in which Hamas releases some captives in exchange for Palestinian prisoners
  • Phase 2: permanent end of hostilities and release of the remaining captives
  • Phase 3: reconstruction of Gaza and the return of any captives’ remains to Israel

These have been key sticking points in the talks:

  • The Palestinians to be released from Israeli jails in Phase 1
  • Israeli concerns that Hamas will smuggle weapons from Egypt to Rafah
  • Transitioning from a truce to a permanent ceasefire. A key passage is at odds with Netanyahu’s list of “non-negotiable” conditions for Israel to sign a deal, including the destruction of Hamas

The three main issues being discussed in Doha talks today

There’s very limited information coming out from these talks. Israeli media say progress was deemed sufficient for the so-called technical teams to be sent to Doha. We also understand that a technical team is being sent to Egyptian capital Cairo.

There are three main issues in today’s second day of talks in Qatar.

The first is the names of the Palestinian prisoners and the Israeli captives who will be released in the first phase of this three-phase plan put forward by US President Joe Biden in May, that is backed by the UN.

The second involves security and the Israeli military presence in the south of Gaza along the border with Egypt.

The third and arguably the most difficult issue being discussed today is a transition from the first phase to a potentially permanent ceasefire in the Gaza Strip. This is made more difficult on the back of comments made by the Israeli prime minister a few days ago. He said although he is committed to the deal, there are certain non-negotiable elements that he wants guaranteed, including Israel’s ability to keep fighting in Gaza to destroy Hamas.


Last push by the Biden administration to secure ceasefire: Analyst

Tamer Qarmout, an assistant professor of public policy at Doha Institute of Graduate Studies, says he is “quite pessimistic” about the ceasefire negotiations being held in Doha given that “previous rounds of negotiations have failed miserably”.

“We have been hearing that Netanyahu and his defence minister have expressed disagreements over the Gaza truce deal. So, let’s wait and see. There are so many unknown factors,” he told Al Jazeera from Belgrade.

He added that in his opinion this is the last push by the Biden administration to secure a ceasefire in Gaza. “After this push, if things do not work then Americans would be busy with their elections and the Gaza war will be a secondary or third priority for them,” he said.

He also pointed out that Netanyahu has sabotaged many of the past negotiations. “If this round has to succeed, then I think it requires real and sincere American pressure and some deadlines by Washington.”


Hamas says no updates given to group on possible ceasefire deal

Hamas says mediators have not yet provided the group with any updates regarding Gaza ceasefire negotiations and prisoner exchanges.

“The occupation continues its policy of procrastination to buy time with the aim of thwarting this round of negotiations, as it did in previous rounds. This does not deceive our people and their resistance,” Hamas said in a statement.

Ceasefire negotiations are currently under way in Qatar as Israel, Hamas, and mediators try to agree on the details of a possible deal.



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SvennoJ on 11 July 2024

Gallant meets with US envoy amid reported row with Netanyahu

Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant has met with White House Middle East envoy Brett McGurk in Israel to discuss the war on Gaza.

His office said in a statement that the two discussed progress on the ceasefire agreement, “with an emphasis on the security measures required to prevent weapons smuggling into Gaza”.

It said the two discussed delivery of “critical munition, some of which will be sent to Israel in the coming days”. Gallant’s office characterised the meeting as a follow-up to the one in Washington, DC, in late June.

This comes as Israeli media are reporting that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is deliberating removing Gallant from his government amid disagreements on issues including enlisting ultra-Orthodox Jews for military service.


Opposition leader calls for condemnation after rabbi’s fiery op-ed

Prominent Jewish rabbis say yeshiva students must refuse to turn up for military service as the contentious issue continues to threaten the Israeli government.

Rabbi Dov Lando made the call in a front-page commentary for the Yated Ne’eman daily, which is affiliated with the United Torah Judaism, a key coalition partner of Prime Minster Benjamin Netanyahu.

He said Israel’s judicial system has “declared war against the Torah world”, in reference to the ruling by the High Court that the government must immediately start drafting ultra-Orthodox students into the military.

Lando’s statement for students to refuse draft orders follows similar calls by a group of senior Sephardi rabbis on Wednesday.

Yair Lapid, Israel’s main opposition leader, said in a post on X the government must “condemn in explicit words” Lando’s demands or else it will have neglected Israeli soldiers and military values.



SvennoJ on 11 July 2024

Where to now as Israel orders Gaza City evacuated?

The leaflets dropped by Israel on Gaza City claimed that Palestinians would be able to take “safe routes” south.

But earlier this month, Andrea De Domenico, the head of the UN humanitarian agency’s office in the occupied Palestinian territory, said it was impossible for Palestinians to move safely between the north and the south of Gaza.

Palestinians trying to pass the Israeli military checkpoints dividing Gaza have been executed “in cold blood” or put in prisons, where inhumane conditions are reportedly widespread, Gaza’s Government Media Office has also warned.

“The Strip is completely broken in two,” said De Domenico. There is a “military presence that is blocking movements and impeding movements for the civilians, and frequently, unfortunately, also obstructing our ability to move,” he said.


Israel’s Gaza City evacuation order ‘absolute madness’, says rights group

B’Tselem, the Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories, has called Israel’s orders for Gaza City’s entire population to evacuate “absolute madness”. In a post on social media, the leading human rights groups said the international community must now intervene and “demand that Israel immediately stop the war”.

“Based on Israel’s actions, it appears that it intends to continue fighting indefinitely, sowing destruction, and killing masses of people for the foreseeable future,” the group said in a series of posts.


Palestinians describe Israeli snipers shooting at civilians

A woman told Al Jazeera she wanted to pass through Yarmouk stadium in the Shujayea neighbourhood in Gaza City but was told there were bodies of Palestinians in the streets who were shot by Israeli snipers.

“We came to ask for help from the paramedics and firefighters to at least take the dead bodies so they wouldn’t remain in the street. Otherwise, their bodies would be eaten by dogs if they are not retrieved from the roads. They need to be buried.”

But another man in the area said paramedics were unable to reach the bodies. “They told us that they didn’t have instructions to retrieve the bodies and that anyone who approaches the deceased will be shot directly,” he said.

Multiple people said they saw a man walking in the street being shot in the head by a sniper. Several people later managed to retrieve the body. “This person was walking peacefully, and then a bullet was shot into his head. We went down and brought him here,” one of the men said.


Palestinians walk past the destroyed buildings and rubble after the Israeli military withdrew from the Shujayea neighbourhood, east of Gaza City on July 10

Health authorities restart two hospitals in Gaza City

The Government Media Office in Gaza says health authorities have restarted partial operations at two healthcare facilities in Gaza City in the northern part of the enclave on Thursday after Israeli military attacks rendered them out of service.

The al-Ahli Arab Hospital and the General Service Hospital are again receiving sick or wounded Palestinians, it said in a statement.

“We appreciate the great and exceptional efforts of the medical teams who have been working around the clock and have not stopped since the beginning of the genocidal war to serve our great Palestinian people.”



SvennoJ on 11 July 2024

Israeli forces come under mortar fire amid withdrawal from Shujayea area: Monitors

Israeli forces continued to come under mortar and small arms fire on Wednesday from Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) fighters in Gaza City’s Shujayea neighbourhood, despite Israel declaring that its operation against Palestinian armed resistance in the area had ended, war monitors report.

“Several Palestinian militias” also carried out attacks on Wednesday in the west and southwest of Gaza City using improvised explosive devices and small arms, the Institute for the Study of War (ISW) and the Critical Threats Project (CTP) report in their latest battlefield assessment.

In Gaza’s southern Rafah city, where a weeks-long ground offensive continues, fighters with the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades also fired mortar shells at Israeli forces, the US-based think tanks report.


Israeli military strikes Rafah position after rocket launch

The Israeli military has released aerial footage it says shows an air strike in the Rafah area of southern Gaza that it says killed Hamas fighters.

The Palestinians targeted carried out a rocket launch less than 30 minutes before being hit by both warplanes and artillery, it said. As we reported earlier, sirens sounded in Israel close to its boundary with Gaza. The military said five rockets were shot down by the Iron Dome missile defence system.


60 bodies recovered in Shujayea after Israeli ground assault

A spokesperson for the civil defence agency says more than 85 percent of the buildings in Gaza City’s Shujayea neighbourhood have become uninhabitable, making more than 120,000 residents now homeless.

“We recovered more than 60 martyrs [bodies] and there are dozens of martyrs under the rubble of homes in the Shujayea neighbourhood. We do not have an accurate number,” said the spokesperson, who wasn’t named.

“The occupation destroyed a medical clinic that provided health services to more than 60,000 Palestinians in Shujayea,” he added.

“Documented testimonies” have been taken that Israeli forces opened fire on residents in the neighbourhood despite being in designated evacuation routes.

Israeli forces are now invading Gaza City’s southern neighbourhood of Tal al-Hawa and “destroying all aspects of life.”

“Initial estimates indicate at least 50 people were killed in the Tal al-Hawa area by occupation fire. Our crews are unable to deal with multiple areas targeted at the same time.”


Israel has killed 38,345 Palestinians since October 7: Gaza health ministry

The health ministry in Gaza says Israel forces have killed at least 38,345 people since October 7. At least 50 were killed in the past 24 hours, a ministry statement said, adding that 88,295 people have been wounded since the start of the conflict.



SvennoJ on 11 July 2024

Israeli military claims several strikes on southern Lebanon

Israeli forces have attacked several locations in southern Lebanon overnight, including Aita al-Shaab, Rab el-Thalathine, al-Addousiyeh, and Khiam, the Israeli military said in a post on X. The strikes targeted a Hezbollah observation post and a truck carrying a rocket launcher, among other Hezbollah sites, the Israeli military said.

The latest attacks come after the Israeli military said one of its soldiers was moderately injured by Hezbollah drone fire in the occupied Golan Heights. More than 90,000 residents of southern Lebanon have been displaced from their homes and villages since October amid a barrage of Israeli fire.


Israeli army says it intercepts several drones from Lebanon

The Israeli army says it has intercepted “a number of suspicious aerial targets” and several drones flying from Lebanon and they have fallen into northern Israel. Israeli media reported that one person was critically wounded. Hezbollah has stepped up drone attacks on Israel as the Gaza war has entered in its 10th month.


Hezbollah claims drone attacks on northern Israel

The Lebanese group has claimed its first attacks of the day in border fighting with Israel, confirming it launched multiple drones. Hezbollah said it used the drones to target the new headquarters of an Israeli army battalion south of Kabri and inflicted casualties. It also said it hit the al-Malikiah site in a separate attack.

Sirens had earlier sounded in areas of Western Galilee and east of Nahariya in northern Israel, with the Israeli military confirming that several drones successfully crossed over.



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SvennoJ on 11 July 2024

Ireland condemns Israel’s destruction of Palestinian school in occupied West Bank

Ireland’s representative office in the occupied Palestinian territory has blasted the demolition of an internationally-funded school in the occupied West Bank’s Hebron Hills. In a post on social media, the office said Ireland “along with like-minded missions condemns the demolition of the donor-funded school in Khallet Amera in Hebron” on Monday.

“As the occupying power, Israel must uphold the right to education for Palestinian children,” Ireland said. The European Union’s delegation to the Palestinian territory also condemned the demolishing of the school that “provided education to many children from vulnerable backgrounds”.

“We call on the government of Israel to uphold the basic human right to education for Palestinian children,” the EU delegation said.

‘Targeted effort against refugee camps’ in West Bank: Mustafa

Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammad Mustafa tells a gathering that what has been happening in the refugee camps in Jenin, Tulkarem, Nablus and elsewhere across the occupied West Bank is unacceptable.

“Our refugee camps have been subject to huge destruction. We take this seriously not only because it affects how people live and how their lives are going, but because we feel there is a targeted effort against refugee camps,” he said. Coupled with Israeli moves against UNRWA, he said this paints a picture of a larger campaign to undermine refugee camps.

Mustafa also called expanding Israeli settlements illegal and unacceptable. Israeli settlements, which are the biggest obstacle in the way of a Palestinian state, are considered illegal under international laws.

“For us, the settlements are the antithesis of Palestinian statehood and the two-state solution,” he said during a speech at the Palestinian Foreign Ministry.

Mustafa said the situation in Gaza is “very alarming and sad” and that even though the PA “appreciates all ceasefire efforts”, there is a need for swift action to help Palestinians in the enclave.


Visualising how Israel keeps stealing Palestinian land

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/11/how-israel-keeps-stealing-palestinian-land

In 2024, Israel illegally seized 23.7sq km (9.15sq miles) of Palestinian land in the occupied West Bank, amid its ongoing war on Gaza. That’s more than the land it took over the past 20 years combined.

On July 2, Israeli authorities announced the largest single seizure in more than 30 years – 12.7sq km (4.9sq miles) in the Jordan Valley. It was the latest in a series of land grabs announced this year by Israel’s far-right Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, who oversees settlement planning.

Israel has seized more than 50sq km (19.3sq miles) of Palestinian land since 1998, according to Peace Now, an Israeli anti-settlement watchdog. 



SvennoJ on 11 July 2024

Three shot, 5 arrested as Israeli military carries out West Bank raids

The Israeli military has shot two Palestinians after storming the town of Halhul, north of Hebron in the occupied West Bank, the Wafa news agency reports.

A 25-year-old and a 17-year-old were shot in the abdomen, Wafa reports, while a third man was beaten in the head with a rifle. Their condition is not currently known. Israeli forces have also shot a Palestinian man during their storming of the Balata refugee camp, east of Nablus, while five men were also arrested during the raid.

A woman, a 13-year-old child, and a 23-year-old man have also reportedly been beaten by Israeli soldiers during the assault.


Israeli military carries out more arrests in the occupied West Bank

The Israeli military has arrested three men in Bethlehem governorate in the occupied West Bank, the Wafa news agency reports.

Wafa reports that one man was arrested from the centre of the city of Bethlehem, while a second man was arrested from the village of Dar Salah, and a third man was arrested from Marah Rabah village.

A fourth man has also been arrested after Israeli forces stormed his house in the village of Rujib, east of Nablus.


Palestinian arrested, another beaten in occupied West Bank

Shortly after arresting three people in Bethlehem governorate in the occupied West Bank, the Israeli military has arrested another person in the city of Hebron. The man’s house was also searched during a raid.

The Wafa news agency reported that another Palestinian was also assaulted and beaten by Israeli settlers in Beit Anoun, east of Hebron. The man was taken to hospital for treatment.

During multiple raids in Hebron, the Israeli military reportedly set up checkpoints at entrances to areas where the operations were taking place.

East of the city of Jericho, Israeli forces demolished multiple structures, including a horse stable belonging to a local resident, with a military bulldozer, saying they were built without a permit.

In the northern Jordan Valley, Israeli settlers began bulding a dirt road near Palestinians’ tents with protection from soldiers.


Israeli forces arrest Palestinian, demolish a home in West Bank

Israeli military raids are continuing in the occupied West Bank. The footage below shows a Palestinian being arrested by Israeli forces in Birzeit, north of Ramallah.

Israeli bulldozers reportedly began demolishing a three-storey home in the Khirbet Qalqas area, south of Hebron in the occupied territory.

The Wafa news agency cites the brother of the building’s owner as saying 30 people will now be displaced after the destruction of the house under the pretext of not having a building permit.



SvennoJ on 11 July 2024

Turkish minister says lessons weren’t learned from Srebrenica genocide

Turkey’s Head of Communications, Fahrettin Altun, says if the world had learned from the Srebrenica genocide, Israel’s war on Gaza would not be happening.

“Ratko Mladić, etched in history as the “Butcher of Bosnia,” like those who perpetuate the genocide in Gaza today, was tragically blinded by ideology and ignored the pleas of reason, common sense, and conscience,” Altun wrote on X.

“If humanity had truly learned from the harrowing events in Srebrenica, where over 8,000 people were killed solely because of their identities and beliefs without making any distinction between the young and the old, the genocide in Gaza would not have taken place today.”

During the Srebrenica genocide, about 8,000 Bosniak Muslim men and boys were killed in 1995 by Bosnian Serb forces.

In May, the UN approved a resolution marking July 11 as the International Day of Remembrance of the Srebrenica Genocide.


Biden complicit in Israeli ‘war crimes’: Turkey’s Erdogan

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan says US President Joe Biden and his administration are complicit in Israeli “war crimes” and violations of international law in Gaza.

In an interview with Newsweek during the NATO summit in Washington, DC, Erdogan highlighted Israel’s “brutal murder” of civilians and its strikes on hospitals, aid centres and elsewhere.

“The US administration, however, disregards these violations and provides Israel with the most support. They do so at the expense of being complicit in these violations,” Erdogan said.

“At this juncture, who will impose what kind of sanction against Israel for violating international law? That is the real question and no one is answering that.”

Israel has consistently rejected accusations it breached international law and denied deliberately targeting civilians. Turkey has repeatedly condemned Israel’s assault on Gaza, criticised Western countries for backing Israel and called for Israel to be punished by international courts.



SvennoJ on 11 July 2024

Iran’s Pezeshkian promises ‘all-encompassing support’ for Palestinians

Masoud Pezeshkian, who is expected to become Iran’s president in the next few weeks, has written to Hamas politburo chief Ismail Haniyeh to reassure the group that his administration will continue to support the Palestinian cause.

The moderate president-elect wrote in his letter he considers support for the Palestinian people and standing up to Israeli occupation and its system of apartheid a “human and Islamic duty”.

Pezeshkian promised he would “continue all-encompassing support for the wronged Palestinian people until the realisation of all their goals and rights, and the liberation of the honourable Quds”, referring to the Arabic name for Jerusalem.

“I am confident that in the shadow of the historic steadfastness of the resistant Palestinian nation and the wronged but strong Gaza and the heroic endeavours of Palestinian resistance fighters in the current war, victory and divine favour will be achieved by dear Palestine.”

Two days ago, Pezeshkian wrote to Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah promising support for the Lebanese armed group and other members of the “axis of resistance” that Tehran backs across the region.

Anti-Semitisim rising across Europe because of Gaza war

An EU rights watchdog says Europe’s Jewish community faces a “rising tide of anti-Semitism” because of the war on Gaza, “eroding” progress made in the fight against it.

“The spillover effect of the conflict in the Middle East is eroding hard fought-for progress” in tackling anti-Jewish hate, Fundamental Rights Agency Director Sirpa Rautio said.

“Jews are more frightened than ever before.”

Even before Israel’s war on Gaza, the agency found 96 percent of European Jews said they encountered anti-Semitism during the previous year.

Using information collected from 12 Jewish organisations in 2024, the report found that across Europe, 76 percent reported hiding their Jewish identity “at least occasionally” and 34 percent avoid Jewish events or sites “because they do not feel safe”.

In France, 74 percent of Jews said they felt the war affected their sense of security – the highest rate among the countries surveyed.



jason1637 on 11 July 2024
SvennoJ said:
jason1637 said:

Whats even the point for Hamas to give the hostages at the point? In a perfect world the hostages are released and the ceasefire comes to pass but the damage is done. A generation of Palestinians that are still alive will have to live their lives with so much trauma. parentless, no education, and basically on the brink of starvation.

Their point is to trade the soldiers they took hostage for high profile prisoners in Israeli prisons, aka their fighters.

Including / especially Marwan Barghouti "To his supporters, Barghouti is a jailed freedom fighter akin to Nelson Mandela, imprisoned by an occupying force and ready to lead his people to freedom. To Israel, he is a convicted terrorist who since his imprisonment has continued to call for violence against Israel."

https://www.dannymorrison.com/marwan-barghouti-a-palestinian-hero/



He is the most popular possible future leader to unite the West Bank and Gaza and form a Palestinian state.

"Hamas leaders demanded Friday that Israel release Barghouti, a leader of the militant group's main political rival, as part of any deal to end the fighting in Gaza. The demand brings new attention to Barghouti, who plays a central role in Palestinian politics even after spending more than two decades behind bars." Feb 3, 2024

The civilian hostages were not planned, definitely not in the quantity they were brought to Gaza. Hamas lost control on Oct 7 when the Israeli military turned out to be very ineffective. Many other people and factions crossed into Gaza grabbing civilians while the plan was to take soldiers hostage. (Much higher value in trade). Already 4 days after Oct 7 Hamas was negotiating with Israel to please take the civilian hostages back as they didn't have the accommodations / weren't prepared for so many hostages. Israel refused...

It's how civilian hostages ended up in civilian homes under low security, managed to escape (and get shot by the Israeli military) and get 'rescued' in Rafah and Nuseirat from civilian homes. And why the trade in November was at a 'low cost', 3 low profile Palestinians in Israeli jail for each civilian hostage (many of which who have been put back in jail later in the daily West Bank raids, that was indeed pointless)

Israel has traded over a 1000 prisoners for 1 soldier before
https://www.cnn.com/2011/10/17/world/meast/israel-prisoner-swap-explainer/index.html

Yahya Sinwar was among those released, the current Hamas leader in Gaza. (Barghouti wasn't)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/21/yahya-sinwar-the-man-who-may-hold-key-to-release-of-gaza-hostages
When released with more than 1,000 prisoners swapped in 2011 for Gilad Shalit, an Israeli soldier captured by Hamas five years earlier, Sinwar returned to frontline militancy immediately, stating that he had concluded from his own experience that the capture of Israeli soldiers was the “only way” to free prisoners.


For all the ceasefire and hostage exchange talks, the soldiers will always be last. They will be part of phase 2 in the current talked about 'deal', which Netanyahu is hell bent on never reaching. Netanyahu only wants a temporary pause to get civilian hostages out, get some pressure of his back.
Palestinians never had a future in Gaza. The blockade has been ongoing for 17 years with the international community ignoring it. Gaza was/is an open air prison, so in the eyes of Hamas, getting the world to wake up to the cruelty of Israel is a huge success. Although they never expected Israel to go this far destroying most of Gaza.

However the destruction only strengthens Hamas' position. Just giving the hostages up now is not an option for them. But Hamas seems more willing to accept a temporary pause since they have dropped their demand for a permanent ceasefire agreement before accepting the deal. However Netanyahu has thrown up other obstacles, he doesn't care about the hostages, only about his political survival. Even a temporary pause is dangerous for his survival.


Last thing Hamas wants is going back to the slow genocide of Gaza, with Israel 'mowing the grass' periodically.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/14/israel-gaza-history/

Zehava Galon, a former lawmaker with the leftist Meretz party, wrote for Haaretz that the strategy results in “perpetual war” that forgets “human beings are also able to talk, not only to carry a club.”

“Just like mowing your front lawn, this is constant, hard work,” David M. Weinberg of the Jerusalem Institute for Strategy and Security wrote for the Jerusalem Post this week. “If you fail to do so, weeds grow wild and snakes begin to slither around in the brush.”


Oct 7 was a last resort. Hamas had tried everything before from peaceful protests (2018-2019 border protests)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2019/mar/29/a-year-of-bloodshed-at-gaza-border-protests
Gaza border protests: 190 killed and 28,000 injured in a year of bloodshed. Israeli snipers fired live ammunition, killing and maiming dozens. This lethal response on 30 March 2018 triggered anger and disbelief across the world but has not stopped.

A year later, the rallies continue. Thousands have bullet wounds through their legs. The streets of Gaza are filled with people limping or in wheelchairs. Children, journalists and medics have been killed, even when they were standing far back from the fence. The UN has said Israel’s military may have committed war crimes, deliberately targeting civilians.

to repeatedly appealing to the UN and the ICC (as early as 2015 after the 2014 massacres in Gaza). They knew Israel would take revenge, but were not going to continue to sit in Gaza under total occupation and blockade any longer. The Abraham accords were the last straw, normalizing relations with Israel under the premise not to recognize Palestine.
https://gulfif.org/from-hope-to-halt-the-abraham-accords-and-the-palestinian-predicament/

It has turned into "Live free or die".

The UN, international community, USA in particular are equally responsible for making Oct 7 and the current genocide happen.

Occupation only 'ends' 2 ways, either all the occupied are slaughtered into submission (USA, Canada, Australia) or through violent resistance (Vietnam, Somalia, South Africa, Algiers, Afghanistan, Ukraine)

Dont see this coming to pass. They should start killing the hostages so the families and isrealis would put pressure for a deal to be made.