I'm definitely down with these protests as long as they're not Hamas sympathizers or antagonizing Jewish people (both scenarios aren't common but I have heard them happening on more than a few occasions). I find the tent/occupation thing a bit silly and pointless but ultimately it's their campus (assuming they go to the school). It's essentially their residence and they paid to be there - so as long as they aren't impeding people from going to class or causing a major disruption all day, it's well within their right to have that encampment. Counter protestors are also fine, though that brings the potential for skirmishes like recently at UCLA so again it's tricky. Just gotta have campus security and law enforcement there actually watching over things and doing their jobs I suppose.

Netanyahu needs the war to remain in power, likewise with Ismail, I despise Netanyahu and have since before October but Hamas is equally a terrorist organisation and neither of them care about how many innocent people have to die for their war, Netanyahu won't stop until every last Palestinian is dead and Ismail/Hamas won't stop until every last Jew is dead.

I don't see a way out of this honestly and it's depressing so I've largely avoided this thread, I'm already very busy on Ukraine's topic as well and watching Ukrainians being slaughtered, I don't really want to witness it with Palestinians too but I know it's going on. Imo all offensive aid to Israel should be stopped but I'm fine with defensive aid because Israel is surrounded by terrorists who want to see it destroyed (Hezbollah, Houthis, might as well add on Iran as a terrorist country, Iranian people are great, the government massively sucks though) but Israel sure loves escalating things too, like when they bombed Iran's embassy in Syria...I'm all in favour of "fuck Iran's government" but bombing an embassy is a bit much.

But I don't even think stopping offensive aid will stop Israel, only wash our hands of any blame, it ain't like Israel is a weak country who can't make their own weapons and also it ain't like stopping offensive aid will stop Hamas from attacking Israel, if anything it will encourage them further so I don't have a fucking clue what should be done. Two people who want to see the other exterminated and both sides massively suck.

I will say as well there is a massive hypocrisy in how Israel is being defended by the West vs Ukraine, Israel gets fight jet support from UK, America, France...No restrictions or rules on how they use their weapons, whatever damn weapon they want to buy or use, feels like Israel bombing the foreign aid workers just got swept under the rug too.

Anyway, with the amount of effort the OP puts into updating the thread and watching a terrible situation unfold, I'm glad to see there is more activity in this thread from other users, this will likely only be one of few comments I make in here but I do briefly skim the thread from time to time so I want the OP to know his efforts are appreciated.

Hypocrisy and I will throw in self greed I think are humanities greatest weaknesses. Whether it is wars, genocide, protests, LBGQT marriages, other movements over the years. Most people seem to care only when it suits their agenda or personal gain.

I am sure I have said it in the Ukraine thread and maybe even in the swapping characters in movies/shows/documentaries etc, we are one bloody race, the human race, the whole world needs to unite in how we treat others. If it's morally wrong in 80% part of the world, we as the human race should care about it being morally wrong in 100% of the world.

We are such a smart race, we could basically evolve to a point no one needs to work long hours, or have money and have everything they need to survive without stress, yet we chose to forgo basic common sense when it comes o the survival of our species.

This I can basically agree with. The double-standard Westerners (not just our leaders either) often apply to the situation in Gaza probably exists because, between the two sides, Israel is the (relative) democracy and Hamas is the gay-killing, woman-enslaving, Holocaust-denying religious fundamentalist cult and also started this particular war in the first place, in contrast to the Russia-Ukraine War wherein the  more liberal democracy is the one fighting for survival against a relatively arbitrary invasion. I don't think that discrepancy matters right now to the civilian population of Gaza who compose most of the dead, displaced, and malnourished. Survival is what matters right now.

We should definitely cut Israel off from offensive weaponry. I'm not in favor of broader sanctions against the Israeli public, but I think if you cut off the flow of offensive armaments, even someone like Netanyahu will respond to that, much as he appears to have responded to Biden's implied threat to cut them off last month by pulling a division out of Khan Younis. (Make no mistake, the withdrawal was pretty much for sure the end result of Biden's phone call with Netanyahu over the slain aid workers.) This is the leverage we have as Israel's main and most important diplomatic ally and it should be exercised.

While it is definitely an issue, it's also very much used as propaganda, overblown by Israel

LGBTQ life in Gaza is arduous and dangerous. I would know: I grew up there. But only blaming Palestine's conservatism and Hamas, whitewashing Israel's siege and military assaults, is dishonest and exploitative.

https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/232088

And not so long ago the situation was the same in the USA. It takes freedom and protests to get opinion to change. Blaming a culture under siege for not advancing in their social values is not fair.

Same for women's rights, not chance to advance under the current climate.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/middle-east/palestine-state-of/report-palestine-state-of/

Consensual same-sex sexual conduct continued to be banned in Gaza on the basis of a 1936 British Mandate ordinance.

In September, after the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) published guidance to staff regarding treating all genders and LGBTI people equally, the Hamas authorities condemned the guidance for promoting “deviance and moral decay”.

Women still did not have equal rights to men in personal status law, which continued to be subject to religious law. According to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics, 59% of married women and girls experienced violence at the hands of their partner, and the Women’s Centre for Legal Aid and Counselling expected the numbers for 2023 to rise due to conflict and deprivation. Less than 2% of survivors complained to the police, and of those cases, 40% were investigated, according to the Palestinian Initiative for the Promotion of Global Dialogue and Democracy.

On 25 September, Palestinian police together with UN agencies opened an office for investigating and prosecuting domestic violence in Hebron, after a similar office opened in Nablus.


Both are still big issues in the USA as well, 25% of women experience severe intimate partner physical violence, 20% experience rape during their life.
https://ncadv.org/STATISTICS


It's also still an issue in Israel and no doubt happens in Ukraine as well. It's a world wide problem which gets worse in war time.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/domestic-violence-exacerbated-by-wartime-raising-concerns-over-looser-gun-policies/


It's a theme, the more oppression in general, the more people pass it on. Those who get abused early in life have a bigger chance of becoming abusers themselves later in life. Same as the survivors on the Holocaust have now turned into the oppressors.

Peace is needed to advance a society.



And I do think sanctions will work. Israel's economy is already under stress. By all means keep the Iron Dome well stocked and be ready to help defend Israel, but stop the monetary and offensive military aid. More sanctions on Settler activity, crack down on promoting the sale of homes in illegal settlements done in USA and Canada. (and likely other places as well).

And indeed, the US does have influence over Israel. Blinken shows up and aid increases. The willingness to 'finish the job' just doesn't seem to be there on the US side.

Hamas has some good elements as well, but unfortunately there are still much worse groups active as well. Like PIJ (Palestinian Islamic Jihad: Sunni Islamist militant group seeking to establish an Islamist Palestinian state that is committed to the destruction of Israel.)

Hamas has become more pro peace over the years, unrecognized by the West but the leaders have realized that peace is the way out. However unlike the leaders spending time in other countries, gaining perspective, Al-Quds brigade is like the IDF, total hatred for the other side.

Oct 7 plans had been around for well over a year, there must have been elements on the inside not willing to go with the plan.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-obtained-ignored-hamas-document-laying-out-oct-7-attack-plan-report-alleges/
They knew full well what the reaction would be (maybe not as extreme as it turned out) but eventually went ahead with it. It's like performing suicide in a desperate call for help. And it would have been a complete suicide mission had the IDF not been so incompetent on the day it happened.


I wonder if Netanyahu not coming to power again would have prevented Oct 7
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2023/11/24/countdown-to-genocide/
He has been the accelerator in his previous reign, and what happened prior to Oct 7 likely eroded any opposition to the Oct 7 invasion plan.


None of this excuses the horrors of Oct 7 of course. Yet understanding how it happened, why it happened, is the way to prevent it from happening again. Locking Gaza further up, splitting it in two with the Netzarim corridor to keep military control and the blockade going, is only going to radicalize more people.

You defeat terror on a political level, not on the ground.



Short term eradicating Hamas is not making things better. The more practical leadership isn't much in control anymore of their fighters. They don't even know how many hostages are still alive. It's all different pockets of fighters currently in Gaza, still able to pull of attacks and firing rockets, yet there is no coherency anymore. The IDF can keep trying to chase these cells yet at what cost. 

Ceasefire, getting hold of the fighters, de-escalate, disarm is the way out.


I do think sanctions will work like I replied to @Jaicee. Israel is not like Russia. Israel is much more dependent on trade and has far fewer people to send into the meat grinder. There is currently a fight going on internally over the military draft to include the Ultra-Orthodox. Israel needs more troops. Cutting off offensive weapons and not sharing surveillance will make it a lot harder for the IDF to maintain momentum with higher risks to their soldiers. Israel is hiding the true figures of wounded soldiers, but over 600 have died already since Oct 7. Official wounded count stands at 3,300 yet the Jerusalem post already reports over 5,500 with estimates of another 20,000 by the end of 2024.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-786904 (Februari 14th 2024)

That's a big burden on the health system.

The government is already under internal pressure, sanctions, cutting off aid and offensive weapons will accelerate the call for re-elections.

But do keep supplying and improving the Iron Dome. Israel has dropped over 75,000 tons of explosives on Gaza. On average 10% doesn't detonate and Hamas fighters have shown the ability to turn unexploded ordnance into rockets and IEDs. 7,500 tons worth of unexploded ordnance to work with...


The problem will never end as long as the occupation and apartheid system don't end. For that Israel needs a much more moderate government that gets serious about the harassment and dehumanization of Palestinians, recognizes their human rights, ends the system of mass imprisonment, administrative detention, military courts, abuse in prisons, collective punishment, forced displacement, regular destruction of homes and infrastructure in raids and continued stealing of Palestinian land.

Video footage captures moment of Israeli missile attack on civilian tents in Rafah

Gunfire, explosions as Israelis besiege house in West Bank’s Deir al-Ghusun

Translation: Scenes documenting the moment the Israeli occupation bombed a house in the town of Deir al-Ghusun, north of Tulkarem in the West Bank.

Translation: Israeli military reinforcements storm the town of Deir al-Ghusun, north of Tulkarem in the West Bank.

Israeli forces use bulldozer, excavator to destroy besieged house in Deir al-Ghusun

Search for bodies after Israeli forces demolish besieged house near Tulkarem

Translation: Israeli occupation bulldozers begin demolishing the besieged house in Deir al-Ghusun in Tulkarem in the West Bank

Body recovered from house demolished by Israeli forces in Deir al-Ghusun

Journalists targeted in war – Somayya Jawabreh under house arrest

Democratic lawmakers warn Biden that Israel violating US law by restricting aid to Gaza

UCLA protester, a Jewish-American, promises to continue protest