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Forums - Gaming Discussion - (Business Perspective) Does MS really need Xbox Hardware?

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Pemalite said:
Azzanation said:

We have Competition. Nintendo and Sony.

Whilst Nintendo and Sony -are- competitors, they don't directly compete.

Sony and Nintendo appeal to different demographics and their platforms are completely different form factors. I.E. Fixed home console vs Portable.

And more competition is better, a duopoly is worse than a 3-way competitive market.

Duopolies is what drives the big tech industries. Apple/Android, Windows/Mac etc. No 3rd company stays around in the console hardware market, it's just not big enough to support all 3. We are focusing more and more on digital and Cloud that Hardware isn't even necessary anymore. Let Sony make the high end consoles and sell the games on their system. If Sony wants to rip people off again, then we have Nintendo and PC to cover that. 

SKMBlake said:
Machiavellian said:

MS will always be a threat to Sony because Sony has a service just like GP called PS+ but one thing it does not do is day one release of their own games. 

Talk about a threat. Pretty much 0 game in 2022, and 2 so far in 2023 with one rated 59/100.

Don't forget the one they shadow dropped scoring an 89/100 this year.



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Azzanation said:

Duopolies is what drives the big tech industries.

No it doesn't.

Azzanation said:

No 3rd company stays around in the console hardware market, it's just not big enough to support all 3.

Microsoft has been in the console market since 2001, that is several decades now.
If that were a person, they would be an Adult now.

I think it is supporting three console companies just fine, you don't need to sell 100+ million consoles or come first to be a success in the market or turn a profit.

The Xbox One would have sold roughly on-par with a Super Nintendo. - Does anyone here think the Super Nintendo is a failed platform?

Azzanation said:

We are focusing more and more on digital and Cloud that Hardware isn't even necessary anymore. Let Sony make the high end consoles and sell the games on their system. If Sony wants to rip people off again, then we have Nintendo and PC to cover that. 

Digital and Cloud is happening with or without Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo.

PC has basically been fully digital for decades now.
Nintendo have many big graphical titles that are cloud only.
Sony also makes a digital only console.

Microsoft actually makes good hardware, arguably even better than Sony... And that pressure needs to keep up so Sony keeps innovating. - Unless you want a second job to buy your next console?

It's also wishful thinking that if Sony screws over gamers that gamers will flock to Nintendo or PC.
Nintendo is chasing a completely different demographic and have for all intents and purposes left the high-end console market for decades now to focus on portable/lower-end visuals.

And console gamers have proven for over a quarter of a century that they are not really interested in PC gaming.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Not to toot my own horn but do you have any counter to the points that I made because I haven't seen any so far.



Pemalite said:
Machiavellian said:

Right now, MS need consecutive years of great hardware and software in order to grow GP and their gaming division.  Dropping hardware would instantly make just about every gamer feel the company is about to bail the industry and they would bail on the platform.  There is no scenario I see where GP and MS games grow at this point in time without hardware and successfully bringing AAA games to market.

Microsoft's hardware is the least of their issues, they have had the better hardware since 2017, almost 6 years now.

It's all in the software at this point.

Mobile and PC is where they need to appeal to people to adopt Gamepass, combined they are much bigger markets than consoles and tend to be more open for more innovation/flexibility to maneuver in the market.

Not really, the Xbox one was not only weaker than the PS4 but it cost more.  By the time they killed Kinect and shipped the OneX all the damage was done.  Even this Gen,  would not say that MS has the better hardware because as we have seen with most games, the PS5 still either comes out on top or on par.  When you are in third place every little win helps and having the best hardware would make consumers look at the Xbox platform especially if third party games are tops on their list and MS is performing better with those games on their platform.  So I would believe that MS have top end hardware and try to out muscle Sony for this bragging rights as the 3rd place console.

I also do agree they need to solidify their PC offerings and make sure their games perform unlike what we have seen from the latest crop of PC games including MS.  Mobile is where MS will be making their biggest push with GP but they still must develop those must have type of games in order to get that really rolling.  Redfall was a huge set back, especially when people will be comparing against what Sony has released thus far.  

Before I did not agree that the game should have been delayed but after playing it with all its bugs and basically AA looking graphics not to mention the expectations as a first party AAA game, Redfall should have either been shelved or not push back until whoever came to help was able to get the game in decent shape.  As the 3rd place console, those mistakes are magnified to the nth degree compared if it was Sony.



SKMBlake said:
Machiavellian said:

MS will always be a threat to Sony because Sony has a service just like GP called PS+ but one thing it does not do is day one release of their own games. 

Talk about a threat. Pretty much 0 game in 2022, and 2 so far in 2023 with one rated 59/100.

Your looking at this like a gamer instead of looking at it as a business.  MS looks to disrupt the gaming business with GP.  This is something that Sony does not want as it puts more emphasis on Game Pass type services than selling games at 70 pop at retail.  Sony has no incentive to put their games on PS+ day one and they do not want to be in a position to have to go down that route.  Yeah, MS production has not been great but if the only thing as a business you did was look at today and not prepare for tomorrow you would be out of business.



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Ryuu96 said:

Not to toot my own horn but do you have any counter to the points that I made because I haven't seen any so far.

I would say there is no arugment at this time to counter your point.  MS makes a lot of money on having a console in the market place.  GP is not ready to stand alone and probably will not be for a while, MS reach in mobile is very limited and their titles still have not really hit the market nor had any impact.  Before MS can even think leaving the console market hardware their games need to hit and hit hard for a while.



Machiavellian said:
Ryuu96 said:

Not to toot my own horn but do you have any counter to the points that I made because I haven't seen any so far.

I would say there is no arugment at this time to counter your point.  MS makes a lot of money on having a console in the market place.  GP is not ready to stand alone and probably will not be for a while, MS reach in mobile is very limited and their titles still have not really hit the market nor had any impact.  Before MS can even think leaving the console market hardware their games need to hit and hit hard for a while.

I feel like I'm being conveniently ignored.

What a waste of time.

"Xbox will make more revenue with less cost" - Only need to ask yourself if Xbox has more selling power than ABK for this to prove true.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 07 May 2023

Machiavellian said:
SKMBlake said:

Talk about a threat. Pretty much 0 game in 2022, and 2 so far in 2023 with one rated 59/100.

Your looking at this like a gamer instead of looking at it as a business.  

Cause I'm a gamer, not a business owner



Machiavellian said:
Pemalite said:

Microsoft's hardware is the least of their issues, they have had the better hardware since 2017, almost 6 years now.

It's all in the software at this point.

Mobile and PC is where they need to appeal to people to adopt Gamepass, combined they are much bigger markets than consoles and tend to be more open for more innovation/flexibility to maneuver in the market.

Not really, the Xbox one was not only weaker than the PS4 but it cost more.  By the time they killed Kinect and shipped the OneX all the damage was done.  Even this Gen,  would not say that MS has the better hardware because as we have seen with most games, the PS5 still either comes out on top or on par.

And the Xbox One X came out in 2017. - Since then they have had better hardware than Sony.
Hence my point.

The Series X is the console that has the better technology when compared to the Playstation 5, many multi-plats have showcased that, are they significant differences? Not really, you need direct comparisons to tell and feel the difference, it's not like you are stepping up to a PC.

But they still have the better hardware.

Machiavellian said:

I also do agree they need to solidify their PC offerings and make sure their games perform unlike what we have seen from the latest crop of PC games including MS.  Mobile is where MS will be making their biggest push with GP but they still must develop those must have type of games in order to get that really rolling.  Redfall was a huge set back, especially when people will be comparing against what Sony has released thus far.

Their console game releases have been a shit-show, let's be honest.

Their PC support however has been fantastic, it's  like they have finally turned a new leaf and have stopped treating us PC gamers like 2nd class citizens.

All Xbox first party titles are getting PC ports... But they have started focusing on PC titles like Age of Empires, Flight Simulator again, which has been fantastic.
..And their PC ports themselves aren't bad either, far better in terms of port quality than Sony's efforts.

Machiavellian said:

Before I did not agree that the game should have been delayed but after playing it with all its bugs and basically AA looking graphics not to mention the expectations as a first party AAA game, Redfall should have either been shelved or not push back until whoever came to help was able to get the game in decent shape.  As the 3rd place console, those mistakes are magnified to the nth degree compared if it was Sony.

I think there is an expectation and pressure for developers to release on their expected release-schedule... In general.
We need to praise delays, Halo: Infinite for all it's issues is a technically better game because of it's delay.

Then we also have the advertising side of the equation, many games have mammoth advertising budgets which are dictated by advertising contracts which may not offer flexibility in advertising time frames... And considering the millions of dollars that movies, games and tv shows push these days for advertising, it's a big money sink in a games budget.
And the sooner you ratify those contracts, the cheaper your advertising budget and the larger the reach you have.

And you are right, Microsoft has far less room to screw up than Sony and Nintendo who have mindshare.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Ryuu96 said:

Additionally, if they go fully 3rd party, then Xbox Live Gold has to die, and a large perk of Game Pass Ultimate is Xbox Live Gold. So what does Microsoft do to replace it? I can't think of anything right now, which would cause millions to drop back down to Game Pass Regular = Less revenue.

Oh and they'd have to port all of their titles over to PlayStation and Switch...xCloud isn't going to cut it, that is at least 5-10 years away from being a viable option. So add on the additional costs and workflow of porting dozens, perhaps hundreds of titles over to other platforms.

And you'll have some who will drop Game Pass if it doesn't have 3rd parties to fill the quiet periods.

They'd lose the currently millions subbed to Game Pass on Xbox unless they transfer their accounts over to PlayStation/Nintendo.

They' need to significantly expand their Mobile presence, they'd have to carefully transfer the millions of Xbox Game Pass users over, they'd have to MASSIVELY improve on PC, lets use an example, if I became a PC Gamer, I sure as shit wouldn't use Windows Store over Steam which means no Game Pass for me.

Evidently that is the case for a lot of PC users, they hate Windows Store/are entrenched in Steam.

Sorry for skipping you, I literally didn't see this post but ill respond.

Xbox drops Xbox hardware, this will open the gate for Sony to accept a 1st party only GP as well as selling more games separately on PS hardware (No, they cannot bring all their 1st party games across, as they still have to support their current hardware, which won't be a issue if they drop hardware in the future)

1st Party GP on 2 major console markets in Switch and PS means they will have over 200m+ customers that have access to GP, that will make up the cost of losing Live and digital software sold on the underselling Xbox hardware. Yes you cut a lose to gain a much bigger gain. 

Porting is not an issue. They have all the time they need to port games over, some are already on PS and Switch.

MS's end game is subs, removing hardware means they can remove the costs of billions in RnD, Customer support stations, exclusive deals etc. What they gain is 200m+ potential subs for GP which in return will continue to grow earning Xbox billions monthly, if they can score enough subs. This will easily make up any lost ground with hardware.

Last edited by Azzanation - on 08 May 2023