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Anyway...Plot Thickens.



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The shooter wore a T-shirt from a right-leaning gun YouTube channel.

Last edited by Leynos - on 14 July 2024

Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Torillian said:
Jimbo1337 said:

He is part of an age group that is statistically more ideologically progressive. I am pointing out his age because we aren't talking about a 60 year old person where, statistically speaking, is more conservative. 

This was mentioned in a link before but I was curious about your feelings here so I took a screenshot of the graph. Seems like this dude's age group is most likely to be moderate or conservative. Does this change your analysis?

Based on your graph, lets assume the following:

All conservatives (29%) vote for Trump and all liberals (25%) vote for the liberal candidate. Well the obvious follow-up question is: How are moderates defined in American politics? 

Do moderate Americans typically vote for a Trump-like candidate or a Obama/Hillary/Bernie/Biden candidate?

That answer would either support my assertion or indicate that what I said was wrong. To answer that question, we could only pull the data from ~2015 - present since that's when this MAGA movement began. My assumption is that Gallup provided additional questions that could help us determine how moderates align to various political issues. Were some of those questions provided alongside this graph?



Jimbo1337 said:
Torillian said:

This was mentioned in a link before but I was curious about your feelings here so I took a screenshot of the graph. Seems like this dude's age group is most likely to be moderate or conservative. Does this change your analysis?

Based on your graph, lets assume the following:

All conservatives (29%) vote for Trump and all liberals (25%) vote for the liberal candidate. Well the obvious follow-up question is: How are moderates defined in American politics? 

Do moderate Americans typically vote for a Trump-like candidate or a Obama/Hillary/Bernie/Biden candidate?

That answer would either support my assertion or indicate that what I said was wrong. To answer that question, we could only pull the data from ~2015 - present since that's when this MAGA movement began. My assumption is that Gallup provided additional questions that could help us determine how moderates align to various political issues. Were some of those questions provided alongside this graph?

https://news.gallup.com/poll/609914/women-become-liberal-men-mostly-stable.aspx

that's the link, you'll have to dig into their results. Do you agree that the American definition of moderate is not progressive? I mean basically by definition. 



...

Torillian said:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/609914/women-become-liberal-men-mostly-stable.aspx

that's the link, you'll have to dig into their results. Do you agree that the American definition of moderate is not progressive? I mean basically by definition. 

Thank you so much for the link. I will try my best to look through the data. I acknowledge that moderate and progressive are two different words that mean different things. The issue I am having, as indicated in my initial post, is how has the definition of moderate changed or how have moderates, as a whole, aligned to the (2015 - present) political landscape.

Democrats have done a great job at backing their respective candidate, as indicated on the 2020 election, when Biden captured the most votes in American history (liberals/progressives). Meanwhile republicans are fractured between MAGA people and anti-Trumpers. So I don't know how moderates align. Do more moderates align with Biden, Trump, or sitting things out because they hate Biden/Trump? Hopefully the data can extract out that answer.



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Torillian said:
Jimbo1337 said:

Based on your graph, lets assume the following:

All conservatives (29%) vote for Trump and all liberals (25%) vote for the liberal candidate. Well the obvious follow-up question is: How are moderates defined in American politics? 

Do moderate Americans typically vote for a Trump-like candidate or a Obama/Hillary/Bernie/Biden candidate?

That answer would either support my assertion or indicate that what I said was wrong. To answer that question, we could only pull the data from ~2015 - present since that's when this MAGA movement began. My assumption is that Gallup provided additional questions that could help us determine how moderates align to various political issues. Were some of those questions provided alongside this graph?

https://news.gallup.com/poll/609914/women-become-liberal-men-mostly-stable.aspx

that's the link, you'll have to dig into their results. Do you agree that the American definition of moderate is not progressive? I mean basically by definition. 

That link was a very interesting read, but it unfortunately didn't provide the answer to the question I posed. Whenever I turn on CBS/NBC, I am informed that the older population votes more conservative while the youth are more liberal. That's the information that I am going off of and what caused me to make my initial statement.



Ryuu96 said:

Christ, okay. Lmao. Okay, I'll be more clear for you, I'll needlessly expand instead of simply saying a few words which basically sum up my point anyway but I need to be SUUUUUUPER specific for you, apparently, and only you.

When you first started responding to me, I wasn't SUUUUUUPER specific for you and you responded with:

Ryuu96: "First you said he registered as a Republican to vote against Trump, now he registered as a Republican to vote against Republican Senators, House Members, etc. Okay Dokey. Lol. I didn't zero in on the Presidential election, it was you, now you're adding more because I pointed out he registered as a Republican in 2021 so it was unlikely to be for President."

So I responded in kind and required you to be SUUUUUUUPER specific.  



Leynos said:

The shooter wore a T-shirt from a right-leaning gun YouTube channel.

Since he had been a conservative since school, seeing he donated on the day of Biden's inauguration makes me think he had just lost a bet. If that's indeed the case, he might have believed Biden would not be inaugurated or something - meaning he was deep in the conspiratory rabbit hole a couple of years ago already.

Just speculation for now, of course, but still, it would hardly be the first young man to be dragged into this sort of nonsense.



 

 

 

 

 

Jimbo1337 said:
Zkuq said:

Excuse me? I'm not going to intervene in your discussion otherwise, but this is clearly and verifiably false, judging by the few signs there are. In this thread and the assassination thread, in the posts between you and Ryuu, yours have no likes, whereas Ryuu's have a notable amount (on this site's scale), and the only other response I could very quickly find to your messages is pointing out a logical fallacy in your reasoning (see sundin's message in this thread). Can you provide support for your claim of agreement from other users that I might have missed?

Also, I haven't read the discussion between you and Ryuu very carefully, so pardon me if I missed something, but the only logical fallacy I've seen is from you (again, see sundin's post).

Fair. If you are going to nitpick one sentence out of my entire post, then fine. Upvotes don't indicate what is the truth. 

Here are the facts:

...

And I didn't claim that upvotes indicate what the truth is. I just wanted to point out a blatant error in your claims, because I found it so obvious that I found it to significantly undermine your credibility in general. Judging by what I've now read in this thread, I was right to doubt your credibility: you draw certain conclusions from things you can only infer likelyhoods from, which is a significant flaw in what seems fairly good gathering of facts. I may come out as harsh, but I mean this in good faith, as a clear area to improve. You don't always have to draw certain conclusions from everything, because sometimes (and actually often) it's just not possible.

Also, I'll skip addressing your facts, because others have already touched on those subjects. I hope this is OK for you too.



I was corrected a little and I think I am in agreement. But I think it also proves my point. He wanted to cause a civil war as his final act. Kinda like a 'I'm going to take everyone out with me' mentality.

As a side note I wonder had he succeeded whether people would have taken gun safety seriously? If you aren't gonna address mental health like you actually give a damn, you can't also be cavalier with gun ownership.

And since people don't want to spend a dime to address it, eventually you will have to put a ban on guns. Why not take it seriously so we DONT have to ban guns.