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Now that I've had some time to think about it, I think that the next-gen Xbox basically just being a gaming PC running a special stripped down version of Windows, might be a good thing. As long as these Xbox consoles can run Steam as well as Microsoft's own PC store client, this Xbox hardware will have access to every game imaginable just about (save for Nintendo exclusives, and even then you may be able to install a Switch 2 emulator if you feel like breaking piracy laws), because Sony is putting everything on Steam, and I doubt they will pull their games from Steam when some of them are making alot of money there. Maybe Sony would try and pressure Valve to not allow Steam running on this stripped down version of Windows to run Sony games, but I doubt Valve would agree to that, and I doubt Sony would have a legal leg to stand on. They'd be forced to either allow these Xbox PC consoles to run their games, or go against making more profit on PC releases by going fully exclusive on PS6 again, possibly angering shareholders. 



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shikamaru317 said:

Now that I've had some time to think about it, I think that the next-gen Xbox basically just being a gaming PC running a special stripped down version of Windows, might be a good thing. As long as these Xbox consoles can run Steam as well as Microsoft's own PC store client, this Xbox hardware will have access to every game imaginable just about (save for Nintendo exclusives, and even then you may be able to install a Switch 2 emulator if you feel like breaking piracy laws), because Sony is putting everything on Steam, and I doubt they will pull their games from Steam when some of them are making alot of money there. Maybe Sony would try and pressure Valve to not allow Steam running on this stripped down version of Windows to run Sony games, but I doubt Valve would agree to that, and I doubt Sony would have a legal leg to stand on. 

Lord Gaben would laugh in Sony's face, it ain't much different to SteamDeck being able to play Xbox IP and Sony IP except SteamDeck runs on SteamOS. Gabe would never block Steam from a Xbox/Windows device because that ain't how the dude thinks. So Xbox's would basically be the same as SteamDeck except running Windows and maybe not a handheld but a more Console-like experience.



shikamaru317 said:

Now that I've had some time to think about it, I think that the next-gen Xbox basically just being a gaming PC running a special stripped down version of Windows, might be a good thing. As long as these Xbox consoles can run Steam as well as Microsoft's own PC store client, this Xbox hardware will have access to every game imaginable just about (save for Nintendo exclusives, and even then you may be able to install a Switch 2 emulator if you feel like breaking piracy laws), because Sony is putting everything on Steam, and I doubt they will pull their games from Steam when some of them are making alot of money there. Maybe Sony would try and pressure Valve to not allow Steam running on this stripped down version of Windows to run Sony games, but I doubt Valve would agree to that, and I doubt Sony would have a legal leg to stand on. 

Yeah Gabe Newell would laugh Sony execs out of his New Zealand mansion if they actually tried to retaliate in any way. 

I'm curious as to how the setup would work. We'll find out soon enough, but I imagine Steam would run by default in Big Picture Mode, which was thankfully recently updated as a port from the Steam Deck UI. MS would have to REALLY strip down Windows in order to work on a console though without the need of a mouse. 

It's not something I can really picture until we actually see it. It's an interesting prospect for sure though! That also would justify Xbox going all digital considering PC already is lol



shikamaru317 said:
Zippy6 said:

I said this recently in another thread. The $599 was not because of cockiness though. Every PS3 was sold at a huge loss and they lost billions. They didn't charge $599 because they were cocky, if they charged less they would have literally died. It was just a terribly designed piece of hardware. Cell and Bluray were both mistakes for a 2006 console. I won't deny that some of their statements you mentioned were horrible, but I don't think the PS3 era is any evidence at all that a dominant PlayStation will overcharge consumers and I think the "Sony has no competition! Price will go up and be insane!" comments are silly. They undercharged with the PS3, they just shouldn't have designed something so expensive.

I would make the argument that they only designed PS3 which such high specs that they needed to charge $500 and $600 at launch, because they were arrogant enough to believe that their fans would buy the console at those prices.

Fans certainly did buy them people were standing in line for PS3 in the middle of the night but people blamed 'the power of the cell'.  The price discussion wasn't that wild back in the day because you had a console that had bc, that blu ray and you could play online for free, in the long run you would be saving money compared to getting a X360. Selling a console under production costs is not a bad thing for consumers and they learned quickly from their mistakes (made other mistakes aswell like move but still)






NobleTeam360 said:
Ryuu96 said:

@NobleTeam360 pissing me off.

Lol, I mean I think it all depends on how these leakers are defining "remake" and "remaster" Because Persona 4 is essentially already remastered with Persona 4 Golden. Now if by remaster he means something like Demon's Souls which basically got a massive graphically upgrade (which I thought this was a remake but some seem to say it's a remaster) then it actually makes sense. Persona 4 but with Persona 5 graphics. Persona 2 is kind of a question mark since it badly needs a remake, not just a remaster imo.

My understanding is that they remade Persona 3 because it wasn't up to either the gameplay or graphical standards of Persona 5. Character models in Persona 3 were somewhat chibi looking with exaggerated proportions such as oversized heads as opposed to the more realistic proportions of Persona 5, and alot of the maps were somewhat undersized as well, and of course alot of the more recent mechanics were missing (such as being able to choose to be just friends when maxing a social link), so they decided to remake everything pretty much. So, the question is, does Persona 4 need a full-on remake treatment like 3, or is it fine with just taking the assets they already have from Persona 4 Golden and improving the textures of character models and environments, and a few other minor graphical improvements, plus some quality of life updates? Personally I hope they give 4 the full on remake treatment like 3 got.

As for Persona 2, it absolutely will need a full on remake, the original looks like this afterall (this is running on a PC emulator of PSP with higher resolution than the original PSP release):

Not only will they need to add in gameplay elements from the later games that were missing in the original Persona 2, they need a complete graphical remake ala Persona 3 Reload, and they need to combine both Persona 2: Innocent Sin and Persona 2: Eternal Punishment into a single game. 

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 06 February 2024

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You can combine Surface teams knowledge of small form factor laptop/PCs with Xbox teams knowledge of console hardware.

My only fear would be the Windows team...They'd have to seriously get off their ass and make a sort of "Windows Gaming OS" maybe with an Xbox UI and massively improve the Windows Store...

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 06 February 2024

Ryuu96 said:

I think it would be best to just get it over with.

Announce all Bethesda + AB titles will be multiplatform on launch, as it were before, I don't know how anyone can get overly mad about this situation, these are massive publishers that had been multiplatform for most their existence, they can also say some shit about them being limited integrated and employees don't want to restrict themselves to one platform.

All XGS have a timed exclusivity window of ? and make some comment about "first on Xbox" then talk about Game Pass, announce the Activision-Blizzard titles for Game Pass and then finally say that you're working on new hardware, give us a glimpse into what it is, announce the Xbox handheld if it exists, don't have to give us specs yet.

Oh boy.. at least Xbox One reveal would look like a success compared to this trainwreck lol.

I don't even mean to sound overly negative but imagine announcing new hardware by basically saying you've no reason to buy it over our competitors hardware. While games releasing on PC is already hurting sales.

And to think it's possible they only recently changed their long-time vision.. dang it sure ain't looking good.



Ryuu96 said:
shikamaru317 said:

Yeah, these AAA budget increases aren't sustainable for sure, the bubble is heading for a pop soon, I've even seen developers saying it. We've gone from the average AAA costing maybe $80m in combined marketing and development costs a decade ago, to the average AAA now costing probably $150m, and the upper end now over $300m, with Sony now having set aside $385m for the upcoming Spider-Man 3 according to the Insomniac leak.

I've mostly seen developers say it Tbf...It sometimes feels like developers are begging the industry to listen that this shit ain't sustainable but managers aren't listening. I don't know how anyone can look at $300m budgets which are rapidly increasing as being sustainable in the long term, especially when AAAs take 5-6 years to create nowadays. You spend $200-$300m on a game, developing it over 6 years, with hundreds of employees, it flops, there goes that studio and hundreds of employees. It's madness.

It's weird to me that they just keep driving the AAA budgets higher and higher. Even the movie industry largely stopped wild budget increases because they realized it just wasn't sustainable any longer, which is why of the top 10 most expensive movies to date, only a single one is from this decade (Avatar 2), the rest were all done in the 2000's or 2010's before the movie studios realized they need to shrink the budgets somewhat in order to prevent a total collapse, like the one that the AAA games industry is currently heading towards. Movie budgets for high end blockbusters have now largely leveled out at around $200-250m. I really think the AAA industry needs to go back to basics a bit, shrink the studios a bit, shorten development cycles a bit, make the games a bit smaller and less detailed, and get the average AAA budget back down to maybe $100-130m, with the higher end AAA's holding at maybe $200-250m, instead of shooting up to $300m or more like they have been recently. 

Last edited by shikamaru317 - on 06 February 2024

shikamaru317 said:
Ryuu96 said:

I've mostly seen developers say it Tbf...It sometimes feels like developers are begging the industry to listen that this shit ain't sustainable but managers aren't listening. I don't know how anyone can look at $300m budgets which are rapidly increasing as being sustainable in the long term, especially when AAAs take 5-6 years to create nowadays. You spend $200-$300m on a game, developing it over 6 years, with hundreds of employees, it flops, there goes that studio and hundreds of employees. It's madness.

It's weird to me that they just keep driving the AAA budgets higher and higher. Even the movie industry largely stopped wild budget increases because they realized it just wasn't sustainable any longer, which is why of the top 10 most expensive movies to date, only a single one is from this decade (Avatar 2), the rest were all done in the 2000's or 2010's before the movie studios realized they need to shrink the budgets somewhat in order to prevent a total collapse, like the one that the AAA games industry is currently heading towards. Movie budgets for high end blockbusters have now largely leveled out at around $200-250m. I really think the AAA industry needs to go back to basics a bit, shrink the studios a bit, shorten development cycles a bit, make the games a bit smaller and less detailed, and get the average AAA budget back down to maybe $100-130m. 

The people are the top are probably hoping for fast advancements in AI so they can layoff thousands of employees and cut costs.



@NobleTeam360 pissing me off again.