By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Website Topics - NeoGAF gets really cranky about NYT mentioning VGChartz

sinha on 22 April 2008
From NeoGAF:
.
Originally Posted by apujanata:
Strange fact : I am user id #4. Which means I am the 4th user that register on that banned site. Strange.
.
LOL, congrats, you're the oldest user id # actively posting on VGchartz!
.
.
Originally Posted by apujanata:
 ioi (#74) (how come he is not #1 or #2 ??)
.
I believe ioi was either #1 or #2, but the username was Nintendo-related, so eventually he stopped using it and switched to "ioi" to avoid the inevitable accusations of bias (apparently it was later deleted altogether).  Sadly the move did not reduce the 14-year-old-Nintendo-fanboy presence on the site... 
(of course to be fair, GAF has NPD data posted by a mod named "sonycowboy" and no shortage of annoying Sony fanboys)


We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that they [developers] want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine and half years? It's a learning process. - SCEI president Kaz Hirai

It's a virus where you buy it and you play it with your friends and they're like, "Oh my God that's so cool, I'm gonna go buy it." So you stop playing it after two months, but they buy it and they stop playing it after two months but they've showed it to someone else who then go out and buy it and so on. Everyone I know bought one and nobody turns it on. - Epic Games president Mike Capps

We have a real culture of thrift. The goal that I had in bringing a lot of the packaged goods folks into Activision about 10 years ago was to take all the fun out of making video games. - Activision CEO Bobby Kotick

 

Around the Network
Erik Aston on 22 April 2008

Apujanata,

VGC posts NPD numbers and a VGC to NPD comparison every month.

http://www.vgchartz.com/news/news.php?id=1043

As you can see, VGC did very well with some games, and was off on others. VGC and NPD actually had the exact same top 10 titles in March.

So feel free to compare any numbers you want.



"[Our former customers] are unable to find software which they WANT to play."
"The way to solve this problem lies in how to communicate what kind of games [they CAN play]."

Satoru Iwata, Nintendo President. Only slightly paraphrased.

starcraft on 22 April 2008

Can't we all just love eachother?



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

reverie on 22 April 2008

Yeah, I read the numbers backwards indeed. Apologees!



Hardcore gaming is a bubble economy blown up by Microsoft's $7 $6 billion losses.

reverie on 22 April 2008

Neos,

I think it would also help if vgchartz collect the official statements from the publishers regarding shipments.

For example it would be good if I as a Vgchartz member could take Capcom's Q3 report, which stated 300k shipped for Zack and Wiki and 950k shipped for Umbrella Chronicles by Dec 31, and type those 2 numbers (and what time frame they refer to, and a link to Capcom's press release) into some database on Vgchartz.

Then on the respective game pages, next to ioi's sell-through numbers, there would be another box with the shipment info by the publisher complete with the link to immediately check those shipment numbers. Same for hardware shipment figures.

In effect I suggest that vgchartz constantly contrast their own figures with available figures from other respected sources. This should be visible on a lot more pages than just the monthly npd editorial, and it should be designed in a wy that one look is enough to compare VGC vs. the others. It should become part of the website. This would be the only way to show even the most lazy doubter how close ioi's figures actually are.



Hardcore gaming is a bubble economy blown up by Microsoft's $7 $6 billion losses.

Around the Network
Final-Fan on 22 April 2008

^ While increasing the accusations of copying off of NPD. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

reverie on 22 April 2008

Nope, not NPD obviously for legal reasons. Company reports. We had somebody in this very thread misquoting Capcom's latest report. This could be avoided if those reference figures were collected and presented side-by-side with ioi's own work.

 

Edit: A way to include NPD on every game's page would be just to write "Sales figures for this game have also been published by NPD" and then provide the link to our summary NPD editorial for the month were the game charted. I think that would still be fair use. However, I still think publisher's data is more valuable, because even if it does not account for unsold games sitting on store shelves, it's still something like 90 % correct, compared to NPD's 50 %.



Hardcore gaming is a bubble economy blown up by Microsoft's $7 $6 billion losses.

Final-Fan on 22 April 2008
apujanata said:

For those who wanted to know what happened between ioi and NeoGAF, go here :
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140646
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139578
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=128989
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137705
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135524

Please note that the above URL are just random sampling I found. If you wanted to find all post done by ioi, you can go here :
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=2339864
(I don't know how long this URL will be valid, so don't be surprised if it is not valid anymore when you try it).

Some of these give me a login screen instead of letting me see the thread.  Do locked threads require logging in to view or something?  I don't have an account. 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

alpha_dk on 22 April 2008
reverie said:
Neos,

I think it would also help if vgchartz collect the official statements from the publishers regarding shipments.

For example it would be good if I as a Vgchartz member could take Capcom's Q3 report, which stated 300k shipped for Zack and Wiki and 950k shipped for Umbrella Chronicles by Dec 31, and type those 2 numbers (and what time frame they refer to, and a link to Capcom's press release) into some database on Vgchartz.

Then on the respective game pages, next to ioi's sell-through numbers, there would be another box with the shipment info by the publisher complete with the link to immediately check those shipment numbers. Same for hardware shipment figures.

In effect I suggest that vgchartz constantly contrast their own figures with available figures from other respected sources. This should be visible on a lot more pages than just the monthly npd editorial, and it should be designed in a wy that one look is enough to compare VGC vs. the others. It should become part of the website. This would be the only way to show even the most lazy doubter how close ioi's figures actually are.

 That's actually a very good idea.  With that in existence, there would also be a computer-accessible database of the biggest discrepancies in the data; titles that VGC had selling more than there were shipped, or titles that way undersold their shipment, that Ioi would be able to more easily find and adjust his numbers for.

 I like the cut of your jib, reverie!



Please, PLEASE do NOT feed the trolls.
fksumot tag: "Sheik had to become a man to be useful. Or less useful. Might depend if you're bi."

--Predictions--
1) WiiFit will outsell the pokemans.
  Current Status: 2009.01.10 70k till PKMN Yellow (Passed: Emerald, Crystal, FR/LG)

Final-Fan on 22 April 2008
reverie said:
Nope, not NPD obviously for legal reasons. Company reports. We had somebody in this very thread misquoting Capcom's latest report. This could be avoided if those reference figures were collected and presented side-by-side with ioi's own work.

Edit: A way to include NPD on every game's page would be just to write "Sales figures for this game have also been published by NPD" and then provide the link to our summary NPD editorial for the month were the game charted. I think that would still be fair use. However, I still think publisher's data is more valuable, because even if it does not account for unsold games sitting on store shelves, it's still something like 90 % correct, compared to NPD's 50 %.
I see.  It does seem like something like that wouldn't be terribly difficult to implement on the games' pages and even, perhaps, optionally on the graphs, though collecting it all might be a different story, and of course it could not be collected as often.

In fact, that fits PERFECTLY in with this site's founding mission, as I understand it, which was basically to put all the useful sales data into one place for easy viewing and comparison.  Shipment data seems to be suffering from a lack of such transparency, despite the relative clarity of it. 

Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!