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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

John Healey should be Defence Secretary.

As Shadow Secretary of State for Defence, Healey has repeatedly stressed his support for Ukraine in the Russo-Ukrainian war since Russia's invasion in 2022, endorsed the UK's support for Ukraine, and committed to continue Britain's support for Ukraine in any future Labour government. In May 2024, Healey visited Kyiv along with Shadow Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs David Lammy and met the head of the President's Office Andriy Yermak and Defence Minister Rustem Umerov. In a joint statement, Healey and Lammy stated: "The next Labour government's commitment to Ukraine will be ironclad, and European security will be our first foreign and defence priority."

Healey has argued in favour of higher spending on the British military with a larger armed force, closer co-operation and leadership with NATO and European nations over security and defence matters, and for a "comprehensive UK-Germany defence and security pact". Healey has said that NATO will need to do more "heavy-lifting' in Europe, as the winner of the 2024 US Presidential Election is likely to prioritise the threat of China.

In April 2024, Healey committed to raising Britain's defence spending to 2.5% of Britain's GDP by 2030 and commissioning a strategic review of the threats to Britain and its capabilities.



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How would a Donald Trump presidency affect Britain’s relations with the United States? David Lammy, the shadow foreign secretary, campaigned against Trump’s 2019 state visit to Britain and in 2017 called him a “racist KKK and Nazi sympathiser”. Healey paused. “There will be challenges, whoever wins… We’ve got to pick up some of the command-and-control leadership that we might naturally have assumed in the past would be there for the Americans to provide on their own.” Healey added that relations with the US will “require a good deal of work anyway for a new government, but a relationship with that depth needs to be renewed for every era, and if we had a Labour government it would be cardinal that the US remains our most important security ally”.

=

Dying at Lammy and then Healey's super diplomatic response.



Ryuu96 said:

Absolutely bonkers Trump can say shit like he'll let Russia slaughter America's allies (we're talking men, women and children) if America's allies don't spend 2% of their own GDP on their own militaries but Trump doesn't say it like that, he says that they aren't "paying their bills" which implies that NATO allies owe America something (they don't) and is his attempt to turn his dumb ass fanbase against NATO.

He can also say shit like he spoke to Putin and Putin told him his dream was to invade Ukraine and nobody is batting an eyelid, the news sites are too busy screaming about Biden's fucking age, is anyone investigating when Putin told Trump this? Was it before or after Trump attempted to blackmail Ukraine for dirt on Biden? Did Trump tell the relevant people of Putin's "dream", did he withhold critical security information from an ally?

But Biden's Age!

"But her emails..."

They really needed to investigate Trump's visit to Helsinki. Not that I think it would matter in the face of the newfound russophilia in the South. 



Wow, i don't know what to think about this........ So, Marine Le Pen has promised that the French will not involve themselves in aiding Ukraine? What gives? France under Macron has been a hardliner against Russia. And they have motivations as well. France is angry at russia quaffing their imperialism in Africa. Russia has sent over troops and agents to eliminate French influence in Africa, and you would think that a far-right anybody would be 100% against anybody from Russia. Has Putin blessed her with payments like he did Trump?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/05/europe/france-le-pen-ukraine-mbappe-intl-cmd/index.html



shavenferret said:

Wow, i don't know what to think about this........ So, Marine Le Pen has promised that the French will not involve themselves in aiding Ukraine? What gives? France under Macron has been a hardliner against Russia. And they have motivations as well. France is angry at russia quaffing their imperialism in Africa. Russia has sent over troops and agents to eliminate French influence in Africa, and you would think that a far-right anybody would be 100% against anybody from Russia. Has Putin blessed her with payments like he did Trump?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/05/europe/france-le-pen-ukraine-mbappe-intl-cmd/index.html

The more you read politics from around the world, the more you wonder if there is a shadow world Government. In 2024 everyone seems to have a problem with immigration as the biggest issue. What gives? coincidence, or statistically unheard off? or perhaps one countries right wing movement goot in power, an others are imitating? Russian puppets?



 

 

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Cobretti2 said:
shavenferret said:

Wow, i don't know what to think about this........ So, Marine Le Pen has promised that the French will not involve themselves in aiding Ukraine? What gives? France under Macron has been a hardliner against Russia. And they have motivations as well. France is angry at russia quaffing their imperialism in Africa. Russia has sent over troops and agents to eliminate French influence in Africa, and you would think that a far-right anybody would be 100% against anybody from Russia. Has Putin blessed her with payments like he did Trump?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/05/europe/france-le-pen-ukraine-mbappe-intl-cmd/index.html

The more you read politics from around the world, the more you wonder if there is a shadow world Government. In 2024 everyone seems to have a problem with immigration as the biggest issue. What gives? coincidence, or statistically unheard off? or perhaps one countries right wing movement goot in power, an others are imitating? Russian puppets?

I just don't know lol, mabey Ryu or Rol will have more to say about this since it's European politics. 



shavenferret said:

Wow, i don't know what to think about this........ So, Marine Le Pen has promised that the French will not involve themselves in aiding Ukraine? What gives? France under Macron has been a hardliner against Russia. And they have motivations as well. France is angry at russia quaffing their imperialism in Africa. Russia has sent over troops and agents to eliminate French influence in Africa, and you would think that a far-right anybody would be 100% against anybody from Russia. Has Putin blessed her with payments like he did Trump?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/05/europe/france-le-pen-ukraine-mbappe-intl-cmd/index.html

Her party has literally received Russian loans which they've had to payback to avoid controversy, she was against economic sanctions on Russia, has pretty weak criticism towards Russia, a boilerplate condemnation of the 2022 invasion and has said that Russia and France can be allies again in the future, she has said she wants to pull France out of NATO. Fucking freak in 2011 said that she admires Putin and defended Russia's annexation of Crimea, stating it wasn't illegal. She half-defended Russia's imprisonment of Navalny. She seems more angry about Mbappe, an actual French citizen, having an opinion on his country, than she is about that Russian tweet endorsing her party, Lol.

Having said that, in that article she does not say aid will stop completely, what she says is that France will absolutely not send troops into Ukraine and she also says that she will block French weapons from being able to be used on Russian soil, the latter is absolutely stupid and makes no sense unless you're a coward or actively trying to help Russia because America has already lifted that restriction and Russia has done nothing so why would you then go backwards on that? What Macron should do is let Ukraine use a SCALP on Russian soil and then say "see, they did nothing, so why are you trying to help Russia, Le Pen?"

Aside from troop deployments, Le Pen said her only “red line” on Ukraine was stopping France becoming a “co-belligerent” in the conflict via the use of long-range French missiles against targets on Russian soil. This sort of implies that she won't stop French aid completely, she'll just keep stupid restrictions on them that already exist (America still blocks long-range weapons from being used on Russian soil). But we'll have to see considering her history if that remains true, I'd say there's a real possibility that both America and France stop aid to Ukraine under the bullshit excuse of "peace" which only serves to help Putin, if Trump wins and Le Pen's far right party will get a majority but probably not enough to form a government.

Everything what I said would happen is happening, it's a weakness to be an incumbent government right now due to things like inflation affecting the entire world and the incumbent will be blamed for it, far-right parties will crop up and take advantage of the economic depression (and also use immigration as rage-bait) to get into power, often these far-right governments are aligned with Putin's view and people will vote in fascist governments thinking they'll fix all their problems (they won't) and I called this happening months ago and exactly why we should have been quicker on everything to do with Ukraine but centrist/left wingers always move so fucking slow and cautious and now we're in a scenario where we're having to dodge pretty massive bullets.

We dodged a bullet with Italy's Meloni who ended up still supporting Ukraine despite her previously pro-Russian stances, now we have to dodge a bullet with France's Le Pen and maybe Trump, maybe we dodge the bullets, but if we don't it'll be pretty fucking devastating blows to Ukraine and we can't keep bloody taking these risks by dragging shit out. Russia will support these far-right governments one way another, Russia will flood European countries with immigrants as their usual tactic and when people vote them in thinking they will fix the world, it's Ukraine who will suffer, Russia only needs one pro-Russian moron to get power in either America, Germany, France, UK and it's over for Ukraine.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 06 July 2024



Ryuu96 said:
shavenferret said:

Wow, i don't know what to think about this........ So, Marine Le Pen has promised that the French will not involve themselves in aiding Ukraine? What gives? France under Macron has been a hardliner against Russia. And they have motivations as well. France is angry at russia quaffing their imperialism in Africa. Russia has sent over troops and agents to eliminate French influence in Africa, and you would think that a far-right anybody would be 100% against anybody from Russia. Has Putin blessed her with payments like he did Trump?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/05/europe/france-le-pen-ukraine-mbappe-intl-cmd/index.html

Her party has literally received Russian loans which they've had to payback to avoid controversy, she was against economic sanctions on Russia, has pretty weak criticism towards Russia, a boilerplate condemnation of the 2022 invasion and has said that Russia and France can be allies again in the future, she has said she wants to pull France out of NATO. Fucking freak in 2011 said that she admires Putin and defended Russia's annexation of Crimea, stating it wasn't illegal. She half-defended Russia's imprisonment of Navalny. She seems more angry about Mbappe, an actual French citizen, having an opinion on his country, than she is about that Russian tweet endorsing her party, Lol.

Having said that, in that article she does not say aid will stop completely, what she says is that France will absolutely not send troops into Ukraine and she also says that she will block French weapons from being able to be used on Russian soil, the latter is absolutely stupid and makes no sense unless you're a coward or actively trying to help Russia because America has already lifted that restriction and Russia has done nothing so why would you then go backwards on that? What Macron should do is let Ukraine use a SCALP on Russian soil and then say "see, they did nothing, so why are you trying to help Russia, Le Pen?"

Aside from troop deployments, Le Pen said her only “red line” on Ukraine was stopping France becoming a “co-belligerent” in the conflict via the use of long-range French missiles against targets on Russian soil. This sort of implies that she won't stop French aid completely, she'll just keep stupid restrictions on them that already exist (America still blocks long-range weapons from being used on Russian soil). But we'll have to see considering her history if that remains true, I'd say there's a real possibility that both America and France stop aid to Ukraine under the bullshit excuse of "peace" which only serves to help Putin, if Trump wins and Le Pen's far right party will get a majority but probably not enough to form a government.

Everything what I said would happen is happening, it's a weakness to be an incumbent government right now due to things like inflation affecting the entire world and the incumbent will be blamed for it, far-right parties will crop up and take advantage of the economic depression (and also use immigration as rage-bait) to get into power, often these far-right governments are aligned with Putin's view and people will vote in fascist governments thinking they'll fix all their problems (they won't) and I called this happening months ago and exactly why we should have been quicker on everything to do with Ukraine but centrist/left wingers always move so fucking slow and cautious and now we're in a scenario where we're having to dodge pretty massive bullets.

We dodged a bullet with Italy's Meloni who ended up still supporting Ukraine despite her previously pro-Russian stances, now we have to dodge a bullet with France's Le Pen and maybe Trump, maybe we dodge the bullets, but if we don't it'll be pretty fucking devastating blows to Ukraine and we can't keep bloody taking these risks by dragging shit out. Russia will support these far-right governments one way another, Russia will flood European countries with immigrants as their usual tactic and when people vote them in thinking they will fix the world, it's Ukraine who will suffer, Russia only needs one pro-Russian moron to get power in either America, Germany, France, UK and it's over for Ukraine.

Agreed and it seems like a far too easy way to win.