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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

Ryuu96 said:

Sometimes I wonder if I'm just wasting my time arguing with the same old Russian propaganda over and over again, the same old arguments, every single time, the same arguments that make no sense, the same Russian bullshit. I had a discussion recently and had a different perspective given to me that arguing with those people isn't for the sake of those people but it may help sway the opinion of anyone else on the fence watching the debate but damn it is frustrating and you're having the same debate for the 50,000th time against people who have no interest in listening.

At least we've managed to keep this thread focused largely on the Ukraine war effort, focused largely on supporting Ukraine.

Yes, there's a newspaper I sued to comment on which always had (and still does) have those who object to supporting Ukraine. Their content rarely changes, which ranged (depending on the person) from the faux-peace argument to Russian propaganda. It gets tiring to confront after a while.

I also saw Jeremy Corbyn post a column in the Guardian on the topic, although ti wasn't limited to Ukraine. It came across well meaning by politically naive and unrealistic, and also makes me relived he never got into power as foreign policy was something where I always had my doubts about him.



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SecondWar said:
Ryuu96 said:

Sometimes I wonder if I'm just wasting my time arguing with the same old Russian propaganda over and over again, the same old arguments, every single time, the same arguments that make no sense, the same Russian bullshit. I had a discussion recently and had a different perspective given to me that arguing with those people isn't for the sake of those people but it may help sway the opinion of anyone else on the fence watching the debate but damn it is frustrating and you're having the same debate for the 50,000th time against people who have no interest in listening.

At least we've managed to keep this thread focused largely on the Ukraine war effort, focused largely on supporting Ukraine.

Yes, there's a newspaper I sued to comment on which always had (and still does) have those who object to supporting Ukraine. Their content rarely changes, which ranged (depending on the person) from the faux-peace argument to Russian propaganda. It gets tiring to confront after a while.

I also saw Jeremy Corbyn post a column in the Guardian on the topic, although ti wasn't limited to Ukraine. It came across well meaning by politically naive and unrealistic, and also makes me relived he never got into power as foreign policy was something where I always had my doubts about him.

Jeremy Corbyn...Loved his domestic polices but he's a fool who would have got Ukraine killed if he was in charge. I think some of those people are just spewing Russian propaganda disguised as "peace" because they want Russia to win but don't want to admit it. I don't think that's the case with Corbyn though, he is just incredibly naïve and that makes him incredibly dangerous (to Ukraine). 

Just because you stick your head in the sand, refuse to help Ukraine defend itself because "weapons bad" doesn't mean you don't have blood on your hands, you are able to just ignore atrocities and feel good on your high horse in the way of "Hey, Ukrainians are being slaughtered but at least I didn't supply this war, I'm a good guy, also please stop Russia" meanwhile Russia will laugh in your face realising you won't protect anyone and they can take whatever they want now.

If all someone says or does is "please don't do that" then why the hell wouldn't I as a fascist take advantage of that and just take whatever I want? Nobody is going to stop me, I can have it all...It's an amazing treat to people like Putin not to be stood up against with weapons but with words, Lol.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 24 April 2024



Take you pick Scholz.

A. You're a coward.
B. You're not a leader.

Scholz: I'll take them both!



Ryuu96 said:

Take you pick Scholz.

A. You're a coward.
B. You're not a leader.

Scholz: I'll take them both!

That's true.

People who don't speak German won't know it, but he sounds exactly like that almost all the time. He got voted because he is Merkel's "son" or should I rather say that he was closer to Merkel's style than the designated guy of the CDU at the time. Merkel was about following the majority opinion in polls, so she wasn't leading, but rather led. Scholz is doing the same, but his problem is that he has to deal with a war in Europe, something that Merkel never had to. Merkel's approach to politics was patience above everything else and it just so happens that most crises more or less fix themselves over time. But a war demands urgency, so someone taking his sweet time until he even says something, whatever it may be, is already frustrating.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

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Antony Blinken arrives in China with warning for Beijing over support of Russia

"Antony Blinken has landed in China amid a worsening rift between the world’s two most powerful countries that threatens to overshadow otherwise improving relations.

The US secretary of state arrives with a warning that the US and its European allies are no longer prepared to tolerate China’s sale of weapon components and dual-use products to Russia, which are helping Vladimir Putin rebuild and modernise his arms factories, enabling him to intensify his onslaught on Ukraine."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/24/antony-blinken-china-visit-us-secretary-of-state-beijing



After months long absence by America I'm still left wondering, who is the "leader" of Europe?

We're really not going to learn a damn thing are we? Back to riding the coattails of America?



Ryuu96 said:
SecondWar said:

Yes, there's a newspaper I sued to comment on which always had (and still does) have those who object to supporting Ukraine. Their content rarely changes, which ranged (depending on the person) from the faux-peace argument to Russian propaganda. It gets tiring to confront after a while.

I also saw Jeremy Corbyn post a column in the Guardian on the topic, although ti wasn't limited to Ukraine. It came across well meaning by politically naive and unrealistic, and also makes me relived he never got into power as foreign policy was something where I always had my doubts about him.

Jeremy Corbyn...Loved his domestic polices but he's a fool who would have got Ukraine killed if he was in charge. I think some of those people are just spewing Russian propaganda disguised as "peace" because they want Russia to win but don't want to admit it. I don't think that's the case with Corbyn though, he is just incredibly naïve and that makes him incredibly dangerous (to Ukraine). 

Just because you stick your head in the sand, refuse to help Ukraine defend itself because "weapons bad" doesn't mean you don't have blood on your hands, you are able to just ignore atrocities and feel good on your high horse in the way of "Hey, Ukrainians are being slaughtered but at least I didn't supply this war, I'm a good guy, also please stop Russia" meanwhile Russia will laugh in your face realising you won't protect anyone and they can take whatever they want now.

If all someone says or does is "please don't do that" then why the hell wouldn't I as a fascist take advantage of that and just take whatever I want? Nobody is going to stop me, I can have it all...It's an amazing treat to people like Putin not to be stood up against with weapons but with words, Lol.

Yeah it be like the bully on the playground. Russia the bully says to Georgia the small kid, give me $5 after beating them. The Us, Teacher says don't do that and doesn't punish at all, nothing happens. Bully picks another target Ukraine, the Ukraine kid fights back. All the other kids (Nato) do is give Ukraine a stick. Meanwhile the bully still has a metal pipe. Teacher continues to tell them to stop, and even went missing for hours/days as the bullying continues.



Greece Agrees to Transfer Patriot Air Defense Systems to Ukraine Amid European Encouragement

"In a recent development, Greek authorities have indicated that under considerable persuasion from their European counterparts, they have consented to supply Ukraine with Patriot air defense systems. This arrangement comes with financial remuneration and assurances from the United States against potential Turkish hostilities. The US has committed to either send replacement Patriot air defense systems to Greece or offer monetary compensation from its $61 billion aid package once the Congress approves it. With six Patriot systems in its inventory, Greece could provide Ukraine with at least one Patriot PAC-3 system, including PAC-2 GEM technology."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/greece-agrees-to-transfer-patriot-air-defense-systems-to-ukraine-amid-european-encouragement/ar-AA1nxFS7?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=73d5ffa8bdb74b418cebb6dc17f66aaf&ei=23



Ryuu96 said:

Won't help the narrative that Europe can't lead by itself if Germany only sends Taurus after America sends ATACMS.

I really hope Europe, especially Western Europe, actually learns from the fact that we almost lost America. We need to be taking the lead on some things and we should still moving forward with ramping up our military industry in support of Ukraine as if we don't have America. We can't any one individual match America, that'll be crazy, but Europe as a whole needs to come closer.

It's still likely that Germany says no, Lol. I'd rather they send Taurus but I'd rather it not have had to be due to America sending ATACMS first.

I wonder if Germany would let ukraine buy the Taurus missle as any other country would have to.