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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

Also there's surely ~10 Republicans out of 218 who are in seats safe from Trump's bullshit or seats where actually, Ukraine support is high, I know for Republicans overall, it's lower than Democrats, but I obviously don't know the % in each district, Lol, I just can't imagine that in every single Republican district across America they all have support for Ukraine at less than 50% among Republican voters.



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So we need 8 Republicans to break ranks now that three Democrats have refused to sign, Jayapal included.

Look, I get the Israel aid part is hard to stomach, I'm not particularly happy about it either but it's either this bill, or the much worse bill that Republicans have put forward which is worse for Ukraine, still provides Israel aid but completely removes humanitarian aid for Palestinians in Gaza, unlike the Senate bill which includes humanitarian aid.

One way or another, Israel is getting its aid, I'm sorry but it just is, there's too much political support in America for it and the Republicans control House, but the Ukraine aid is attached to Israel aid because Republicans support Israel aid a lot more than Ukraine aid, so you either keep 2 genocides going or help to end at least one of them.

And the fact is, this bill passed Senate, it should be voted on in House, what on Earth is the point in passing bills in Senate if one man can just decide to not bother with them in House? Mike Johnson is spitting all over democracy, this bill should go to a vote in House, that's democracy AOC, it shouldn't be for Mike Johnson to decide on his own.

The petition is not a vote on the aid, it's to bring the bill to a vote, sign the petition but vote against the bill when it comes to the House floor, it's that simple, like I said, one way or another, Israel aid will come, you can bring this bill to the floor, vote against it and maintain your stance of being against Israel aid, it also includes humanitarian aid.

Plus... Biden Order Attaches Human Rights Conditions to US Military Aid, Easing Democratic Rift Over Israel | AP News

The military aid isn't unconditional, if it isn't enforced then that's Biden to blame.

If you want to put pressure on Biden in regards to Israel aid, let me tell you, it'll be a lot fucking easier with a Democratic led Senate/House and it'd be impossible with Trump as president. Israel aid is supported more by Republicans/Republican Voters than Democrats/Democrat Voters so weaken the Republicans, kick them out, embarrass them and then you have a better shot.

Or we end up in a situation where Democrats are forced to pass the much worse Republican bill which decreases the amount for Ukraine, removes humanitarian aid completely, adds right wing border policies. The Democrats can't give Republicans that win, if Republicans win the election it's over for both Ukraine and Palestinians.

The solution can't be to wait until November either, so many Ukrainians will die due to that, likely pushing Russia to an advantage.

Let democracy happen, bring the bill to the floor and then vote against it then if you want.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 13 March 2024

Is it true House is out until March 19th? Do these guys ever do any work?

Yeah, I don't know, I'm losing all optimism with this bill, I don't think the discharge petition will succeed, Republicans won't vote for the Democrat one and Democrats won't vote for the Republican one, Republicans won't vote for it without Israel aid, a few Democrats won't vote for it with Israel aid, Mike Johnson will never being the Senate bill to the floor.

Ukraine will probably have to wait until November and pray Democrats take back House and Biden wins.



SecondWar said:
BFR said:

Are you kidding me? It's not Trump they fear, it's Johnson. He can have them removed from committees. Besides, Trump is going down in November. Mark my words.

Everyone thought that about 2016 and look how that turned out. Also Trump doesn’t need to win to block candidacy nominations. That’s something he’s been very capable of doing in his current position.

2016 - Donald Trump - Is the "new guy," a Washington DC outsider - a business man, someone who could secure the border and reign in excess spending.

2020 - President Trump - Is the Covid-19 guy, and gets impeached TWICE by Congress.

2024 - Candidate Trump - Is facing multiple lawsuits, and also stole classified documents from his time as President.



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Yeah, I wouldn't underestimate Trump but...I don't see how he beats Biden at this moment in time, I think Dems have been overperforming lately as well in actual elections? Dobbs has really fired up women voters against Republicans and I don't see black support for Trump being anything decent either, or LGBTQ+ but as recent events have shown, Ukraine needs Republicans to lose House as well, not just Presidency.

I want Republicans to lose Senate too but it clearly isn't vital in regards to Ukraine aid specifically.



Well, this made me laugh at least.



Ukraine over the past week has lost 2 Patriot launchers, 3 Helicopters and a MIG + Pilot =/

The Patriot launchers aren't really a big deal, America has 1,000+ but American aid is being blocked...

Losing 3 helicopters hurts, losing another pilot hurts even more.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 13 March 2024

If you had a vote in the US Presidential election this November, like I do, who would you vote for?  I know who I will be.



Ryuu96 said:

Yeah, I wouldn't underestimate Trump but...I don't see how he beats Biden at this moment in time, I think Dems have been overperforming lately as well in actual elections? Dobbs has really fired up women voters against Republicans and I don't see black support for Trump being anything decent either, or LGBTQ+ but as recent events have shown, Ukraine needs Republicans to lose House as well, not just Presidency.

I want Republicans to lose Senate too but it clearly isn't vital in regards to Ukraine aid specifically.

They will need to strongly outperform the current polls then if they want a chance to beat Trump, as he's leading in several swing states (most notably Georgia, Nevada and Michigan, where Trump has a fair lead) as well as nationwide. Those 37 Electoral Votes could very well be enough to flip the election in Trump's favor.