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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

Bofferbrauer2 said:
Ryuu96 said:

Who's this Scott Ritter?

Former United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) Weapons Inspector.

And Sex Offender/Paedophile.



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Politicos will meet in Brussels on February 1, where they plan to adopt a €50 billion financial aid package for Kyiv. Scholz intends to use the occasion to hold an additional debate about military support for Ukraine that individual EU countries plan for this year, a German official, who was granted anonymity to speak freely, told POLITICO.

The chancellor issued an unusually direct warning on Monday that "the arms deliveries for Ukraine planned so far by the majority of EU member states are by all means too small," adding: "I therefore call on our allies in the European Union to also step up their efforts in support of Ukraine ... We need higher contributions."

Scholz also said he had asked the EU to compile a list of all the military aid that member countries are planning this year, “at the latest” by the February 1 summit.

Berlin's plan to debate the findings of that list with leaders is likely to raise pressure on countries like France, Italy and Spain, which have donated comparably few military goods to Kyiv so far, at least according to publicly available information.

Scholz Wants To Discuss Ukraine Arms Deliveries With EU Leaders At February Summit – POLITICO



Ryuu96 said:

Politicos will meet in Brussels on February 1, where they plan to adopt a €50 billion financial aid package for Kyiv. Scholz intends to use the occasion to hold an additional debate about military support for Ukraine that individual EU countries plan for this year, a German official, who was granted anonymity to speak freely, told POLITICO.

The chancellor issued an unusually direct warning on Monday that "the arms deliveries for Ukraine planned so far by the majority of EU member states are by all means too small," adding: "I therefore call on our allies in the European Union to also step up their efforts in support of Ukraine ... We need higher contributions."

Scholz also said he had asked the EU to compile a list of all the military aid that member countries are planning this year, “at the latest” by the February 1 summit.

Berlin's plan to debate the findings of that list with leaders is likely to raise pressure on countries like France, Italy and Spain, which have donated comparably few military goods to Kyiv so far, at least according to publicly available information.

Scholz Wants To Discuss Ukraine Arms Deliveries With EU Leaders At February Summit – POLITICO

Yep, Scholz may not be very popular in Germany, but currently he's by far and away the one who does the most for Ukraine.

I would also hope for a kind of fund where all EU countries would pay into (without any obligation or limits so Hungary wouldn't have a base to block it) and could then use to finance military equipment fresh from the production lines to send to Ukraine. That way countries who don't have much to send, especially smaller countries like the Benelux countries or Slovenia could help support Ukraine when they don't have anything at home in reserve to send anymore.





The UK will provide £2.5bn of military aid to Ukraine over the coming year, Rishi Sunak has said - Britain's largest annual commitment since Russia's invasion.

The PM made the announcement during a rare visit to the country, where he will also sign a new agreement supporting its long-term security.

Officials said the package will provide Ukraine with long-range missiles, air defence and artillery shells.

Some £200m will be spent on drones, most of which will be UK-made.

Officials said the military package - for the next financial year beginning in April - would result in the largest delivery of drones to Ukraine by any country.

Sunak Vows That Ukraine Will Never Be Alone As He Pledges £2.5bn Package - BBC News

Later today, the Prime Minister and President Zelenskyy will sign a historic UK-Ukraine Agreement on Security Cooperation. The G7 nations agreed to provide Ukraine with bilateral security assurances at the NATO Summit in Vilnius last year; the UK is the first country to deliver a final agreement. The totemic agreement is intended to be the first step in developing an unshakeable hundred-year partnership between Ukraine and the United Kingdom.

The UK-Ukraine Agreement on Security Cooperation formalises a range of support the UK has been and will continue to provide for Ukraine’s security, including intelligence sharing, cyber security, medical and military training, and defence industrial cooperation. 

It also commits the UK to consult with Ukraine in the event it is ever attacked by Russia again, and to provide “swift and sustained” assistance for their defence. 

PM in Kyiv: UK Support Will Not Falter - GOV.UK

UK-Ukraine_Agreement_on_Security_Co-operation.pdf

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 12 January 2024

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Bofferbrauer2 said:
Ryuu96 said:

Politicos will meet in Brussels on February 1, where they plan to adopt a €50 billion financial aid package for Kyiv. Scholz intends to use the occasion to hold an additional debate about military support for Ukraine that individual EU countries plan for this year, a German official, who was granted anonymity to speak freely, told POLITICO.

The chancellor issued an unusually direct warning on Monday that "the arms deliveries for Ukraine planned so far by the majority of EU member states are by all means too small," adding: "I therefore call on our allies in the European Union to also step up their efforts in support of Ukraine ... We need higher contributions."

Scholz also said he had asked the EU to compile a list of all the military aid that member countries are planning this year, “at the latest” by the February 1 summit.

Berlin's plan to debate the findings of that list with leaders is likely to raise pressure on countries like France, Italy and Spain, which have donated comparably few military goods to Kyiv so far, at least according to publicly available information.

Scholz Wants To Discuss Ukraine Arms Deliveries With EU Leaders At February Summit – POLITICO

Yep, Scholz may not be very popular in Germany, but currently he's by far and away the one who does the most for Ukraine.

I would also hope for a kind of fund where all EU countries would pay into (without any obligation or limits so Hungary wouldn't have a base to block it) and could then use to finance military equipment fresh from the production lines to send to Ukraine. That way countries who don't have much to send, especially smaller countries like the Benelux countries or Slovenia could help support Ukraine when they don't have anything at home in reserve to send anymore.

Germany is doing very great recently but we need to keep up the pressure on sending Taurus.



Do we have any idea why the Republicans are throwing a spanner in the works? My understanding is that 99% of them are just donor schills that will do what they're told by capital (dems are only slightly better if we're being honest). As more funding to Ukraine would benefit the 'military industrial complex' wouldn't they be keen to pull the same strings as they normally do to increase gov spending?

Unless there are other big donors who have interests in halting Ukraine funding... Israel/Aipac for instance would maybe rather keep the attention on their conflict & don't want Ukraine competing for the same US dollars?

Or do Republicans make an exception to obeying their donor overlords if it means disagreeing with the dems? (though I feel this would require more backbone than they have)



Biggerboat1 said:

Do we have any idea why the Republicans are throwing a spanner in the works? My understanding is that 99% of them are just donor schills that will do what they're told by capital (dems are only slightly better if we're being honest). As more funding to Ukraine would benefit the 'military industrial complex' wouldn't they be keen to pull the same strings as they normally do to increase gov spending?

Unless there are other big donors who have interests in halting Ukraine funding... Israel/Aipac for instance would maybe rather keep the attention on their conflict & don't want Ukraine competing for the same US dollars?

Or do Republicans make an exception to obeying their donor overlords if it means disagreeing with the dems? (though I feel this would require more backbone than they have)

A decent enough number of Republicans do seem to be in favour of backing Ukraine. Others who aren’t tend to fall into two categories- budgetary hawks who resist major financial outlays (be it Ukraine or something else) or those who seem to be anti-Ukraine/pro-Russia. The latter group are typically Trumpist Republicans. Remember Ukraine and Zelensky are linked to Trump’s first impeachment and Trump is the type to hold a grudge.



SecondWar said:
Biggerboat1 said:

Do we have any idea why the Republicans are throwing a spanner in the works? My understanding is that 99% of them are just donor schills that will do what they're told by capital (dems are only slightly better if we're being honest). As more funding to Ukraine would benefit the 'military industrial complex' wouldn't they be keen to pull the same strings as they normally do to increase gov spending?

Unless there are other big donors who have interests in halting Ukraine funding... Israel/Aipac for instance would maybe rather keep the attention on their conflict & don't want Ukraine competing for the same US dollars?

Or do Republicans make an exception to obeying their donor overlords if it means disagreeing with the dems? (though I feel this would require more backbone than they have)

A decent enough number of Republicans do seem to be in favour of backing Ukraine. Others who aren’t tend to fall into two categories- budgetary hawks who resist major financial outlays (be it Ukraine or something else) or those who seem to be anti-Ukraine/pro-Russia. The latter group are typically Trumpist Republicans. Remember Ukraine and Zelensky are linked to Trump’s first impeachment and Trump is the type to hold a grudge.

Hmm I didn't think of the Trump aspect - he really does just fuck up everything.

It's just so strange to see Republicans being against any US military involvement full stop, and it of course has to be the one where there's a clear moral imperative to help...  And the idea that there's some in the party that are pro-Russian is bewildering - completely at odds with their historic stance. American politics is in equal measure baffling/terrifying/depressing...



Biggerboat1 said:
SecondWar said:

A decent enough number of Republicans do seem to be in favour of backing Ukraine. Others who aren’t tend to fall into two categories- budgetary hawks who resist major financial outlays (be it Ukraine or something else) or those who seem to be anti-Ukraine/pro-Russia. The latter group are typically Trumpist Republicans. Remember Ukraine and Zelensky are linked to Trump’s first impeachment and Trump is the type to hold a grudge.

Hmm I didn't think of the Trump aspect - he really does just fuck up everything.

It's just so strange to see Republicans being against any US military involvement full stop, and it of course has to be the one where there's a clear moral imperative to help...  And the idea that there's some in the party that are pro-Russian is bewildering - completely at odds with their historic stance. American politics is in equal measure baffling/terrifying/depressing...

Since the advent of Trump, Republicans (some if them) have taken more if an isolationist stance in international affairs. This is usually what Trumpist say when refusing Ukraine's appeal for aide. They'll say Europe's problems aren't America's problems. Trump also is a big Nato skeptic and a second Trump term could well see him withdraw the US from Nato.

But its also hard to listen to Trump and his backers like MTG and not conclude that they're pro-Ruusia.