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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

@KiigelHeart Keep us updated

Sabotaging a pipeline between two NATO countries would certainly be a bold move.

Lets wait and see, I wonder if it is Russia if we'll even get more than the usual finger wagging from the West.



Around the Network

"The damage to the underwater infrastructure has been taken seriously, and its causes have been investigated since Sunday. The state leadership has been closely informed about the situation.

It is likely that the damage to both the gas pipeline and the communication cable is the result of external activity. The cause of the damage is not yet clear; the investigation continues in cooperation between Finland and Estonia.

We are also constantly in contact with our allies and partners. I spoke with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg today. NATO is ready to assist in the investigations.

Finland is prepared, and our readiness is good. These events have no effect on our supply security."



Ryuu96 said:

@KiigelHeart Keep us updated

Sabotaging a pipeline between two NATO countries would certainly be a bold move.

Lets wait and see, I wonder if it is Russia if we'll even get more than the usual finger wagging from the West.

National Bureau of Investigation suspects it's sabotage but they won't comment further at this point.

During news coference our PM was asked if Russian consulate in Åland will be closed and demilitarization of Åland ended, but he was quick to say he would not comment. 

He wasn't pointing fingers at Russia but did say something like this happening isn't a total surprise considering political situation around the world.

Let's see.. I expect more sabotages as Russia may want to stir up shit everywhere. 



Ryuu96 said:
crissindahouse said:

A whole system as much as I know from the little info I got from the news. Rumor is that It might be a system which is stationed in Poland atm. 

Awesome news, I just saw Reuters report on it as well.

Germany is working on the supply of an additional Patriot air defence missile system to Ukraine in the winter months, Olaf Scholz said on Thursday.

Really hope this is an actual fully fledged system because I've seen in the past news sites become mixed up between a launcher and the entire system so people thought it was a new system being sent but it was just an additional launcher. Patriot has a great range and is such a capable system that I feel like even only a few more would be extremely significant, it doesn't have to be dozens.

On the flip side, I see Scholz straight up says this, Lol.

"We must of course ensure that there is no escalation of the war and that Germany does not become part of the conflict," Scholz said.

Finally clear what they send. A Patriot system with 8 launchers + command and radar units. It's part of a "Winter package" which will also include one more IRIS-T system, 10 more Leo 1 and 3 Gepard + some APCs and medical vehicles. 

Ukraine will also get two more IRIS-T systems this October. One for short range and one for the mid range. 

https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/schwerpunkte/krieg-in-der-ukraine/lieferungen-ukraine-2054514



NATO's Stoltenberg: If Proven Baltic Pipeline Was Attacked, NATO's Response Will Be Determined | Reuters

It'll be a determined sternly worded letter. I'm unconvinced at this stage if it was Russia that the West would do anything important.

Like don't get me wrong, we've done a lot for Ukraine, but we could still do a lot more, as I've said before, the West is reactive to Russia rather than proactive and often that reaction isn't strong enough, that is why Russia does what it does, that is why Russia keeps pushing and pushing, they're testing our limits and we keep expanding our limits so Russia keeps (slowly) pushing them further. Countries are worried about escalation? Russia is slowly pushing us there like a boiling frog. Russia constantly talks about "red lines" and doesn't stick to them because Russia is a coward when confronted with real force, meanwhile I don't know what the West's red lines are apart from don't use nukes and don't attack us.

We're still afraid to send Taurus because of fear of "escalation" and we still won't send ATACMS (I'm not talking about the cluster version) because America isn't willing to take a hit to their stocks. We still won't be willing to take larger hits to our military capability in order to send Ukraine further essential quicker, in larger batches and quicker, because we're afraid that we may be attacked one day...by Russia (?). We'll still restrict what targets Ukraine is allowed to hit and still give Ukraine restricted range missiles (such as Storm Shadow having the capability of hitting 550km but we give them a restricted version of 250km). We'll still spend months of debate over the next thing to send Ukraine.

Lets not even mention the amount of Russian missiles landing near NATO borders, such as Romania recently, I'd even suggest we tell Russia that from now one we're going to shoot those missiles out the sky that get close to NATO borders or Russia blackmailing the world via the Black Sea, a sea which they do not own, threatening civilian ships supplying food to the world, an indirect attack on the world that needs that grain. We let them do that, we sat back and did barely anything about it, if it wasn't for Ukraine's own built naval drones (and Storm Shadow Tbf) then Russia would still be blackmailing and starving the world.

Russia blowing the Ukraine dam which is probably ecologically going to be just as devastating as a nuke for Ukraine had barely any reaction from the West, barely any words, no extra aid packages, it was silence and "oh we feel so bad for you, Ukraine". Defensive equipment is great but there is clearly still a reluctance from the West to send certain amounts of (and certain kinds of) offensive equipment, a combination of fear of escalation and fear of depleting their own stocks (can't for the life of me think of who else threatens the West other than China and they aren't ready to attack Taiwan yet but they will be in a few years when we're still busy aiding Ukraine).

Maybe if this turns out to be Russia we'll sanction more Oligarchs and send Ukraine some more ammo for their guns.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 11 October 2023

Around the Network
crissindahouse said:
Ryuu96 said:

Awesome news, I just saw Reuters report on it as well.

Germany is working on the supply of an additional Patriot air defence missile system to Ukraine in the winter months, Olaf Scholz said on Thursday.

Really hope this is an actual fully fledged system because I've seen in the past news sites become mixed up between a launcher and the entire system so people thought it was a new system being sent but it was just an additional launcher. Patriot has a great range and is such a capable system that I feel like even only a few more would be extremely significant, it doesn't have to be dozens.

On the flip side, I see Scholz straight up says this, Lol.

"We must of course ensure that there is no escalation of the war and that Germany does not become part of the conflict," Scholz said.

Finally clear what they send. A Patriot system with 8 launchers + command and radar units. It's part of a "Winter package" which will also include one more IRIS-T system, 10 more Leo 1 and 3 Gepard + some APCs and medical vehicles. 

Ukraine will also get two more IRIS-T systems this October. One for short range and one for the mid range. 

https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/schwerpunkte/krieg-in-der-ukraine/lieferungen-ukraine-2054514

This is an awesome package, love to see another Patriot being sent. IRIS-T is great as well.

Be very good to help defend Ukraine's civilians and infrastructure over Winter.

Is that now x2 Patriot Systems from Germany and x1 from America?

If other countries only send one each then that would probably be enough...

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 11 October 2023

Russia attempted a large assault yesterday in Avdiivka, first reported by Rybar (pro-Russian source) but Russian millbloggers are silent today. Reportedly the situation is becoming difficult for Russians in Bakhmut as so this assault was an attempt to divert Ukraine resources away from Bakhmut. It sounds like Ukraine repelled the worst of it (at a notable cost) but it also sounds like Russia received heavy losses.

About today's large scale Russian attack on the Avdiivka front, by DeepState:

Today was one of the most difficult days at the Avdiivka direction

⚔️ The enemy went on the attack with several columns, filled with infantry. The attack was accompanied by artillery, aviation and missile strikes. Columns advanced from Krasnohorivka, Novoselivka Druha, Vodyane, Pisky and Vesele. Russians managed to capture certain positions, but considering the number of personnel and equipment that was involved, the results are simply deplorable for the enemy.

⚔️ Russians hoped for a blitzkrieg. Losses of equipment are colossal, analysts will soon be counting. Hundreds of Russian infantrymen were engaged and they are still roaming the no man's land. The fighting continues. Indeed, everything could have been much worse, but the coordinated work of the Defense Forces of Ukraine produced results. Of course, it was not without losses.

⬅️ Russians statements about the entry into Berdychi which were circulating on the Internet - is just another sick fantasy of propagandists. Of course, not everything is rosy near Avdiivka, but the first attack of the real Soviet army was repelled.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 11 October 2023

Hate to say it but I'm convinced at this stage that nobody will rise up against Putin in Russia, even if Russia lost this war.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 11 October 2023



Lol, I'm Shocked! /s.