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Forums - Sales Discussion - PS2 shipments over 158.6m, breaking down missing fiscal data.

RolStoppable said:
Zippy6 said:

My bad that was meant to be March 31st 2012 lol, the figure came from adding together Sony's fiscal numbers for Manufactured FY99-FY06 and Shipped FY07-FY11. But according to ZhugeEx the difference between manufactured and shipped was a lot greater than the 0.51m I thought was accounted for.

155.01m as of March 31st 2012 is as far as I can find the correct number, but even that it's difficult to find a source. I just have this as explanation:

"PS2 Production Shipments were 117.9 million as of March 2007. At this point Sony switched from reporting production shipments to hardware sell in. Hardware sell in at this point was 115.6 million." from this thread

I finally found what was I looking for:
https://www.sie.com/en/corporate/data.html

More than 155.0m as of March 31, 2012.

So at this date the whole confusion between production numbers and sell-in is tangled apart by an official Sony figure.

Only the PS1 and PS3 have final hardware data disclosed as of now. PS2, PSP and PSV look like they will forever be undisclosed while PS4 will get finalized once it has actually stopped selling and the same can be assumed for the PS5. It's clear that the page is getting updated, because the latest PS4 and PS5 numbers are there.

Don't forget the PS1+PS2+PS3+PSP+ PS4 + PS vita= 525.3m math. With known numbers for PS1,PS3, PSP, PS4 at the time.



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I'm sure that PS2 would sold about 160M units. Since 2013, there are many PS2 (new models shipped) into stores and this predictions are quite real.



Video games and consoles collector from Poland.

SonicWariatPOL said:

I'm sure that PS2 would sold about 160M units. Since 2013, there are many PS2 (new models shipped) into stores and this predictions are quite real.

I think it is close to 160m, but didn't make it. Otherwise Sony PR.



RolStoppable said:
Zippy6 said:

Wow, I can't believe no one in all the threads etc I've been through linked that page, very useful. I guess I can try and pick apart the post 2013 fiscals to see if there's any data to prove how many of those 16.5m PS2+PS3 combined figures were PS3 to get to 87.4m as of March 31st 2017.

I am quite sure that Sony didn't create this page before 2020, so it's understandable that it never comes up in a ResetEra thread created in 2018.

It should be possible to calculate final PS2 and PS3 figures based on knowing that we do have a final PS3 figure already. Although there's a chance that quarterly PS3 shipments post March 2013 are incomplete.

PS3 figures:

FY06=3.61m (Source)
FY07=9.12m (12.73m total) (Source)
FY08=10.06m (22.79m total) (Source)
FY09=13m (35.79m total) (Source)
FY10=14.3m (50.09m total) (Source)
FY11=13.9m (63.99m total) (Source)
FY12=???? (16.5m combined with PS2) (Source)
FY13=7.1m (71.09m total without FY12) (Source)
FY14=3.1m (74.19m total without FY12) (Source)
FY15=??? (??? total)
FY16=??? (87.4m total) (Source)

So the 87.4m figure as of March 31st 2017 proves that the PS2 had to have sold a minimum of 158.29m, even without the 80m nov 2nd figure, because even if PS3 shipped zero units in FY15/FY16 then FY12 sales would be 13.21m for PS3 in FY12, meaning the other 3.29m are the PS2, add on to the 155m figure and 158.29m.

So if PS3 sold 1m in FY15/FY16 combined the PS2 would be 159.29m, if it sold 2m in FY15/FY16 combined, 160.29m etc.

Will see if there are any press releases that can help narrow it down but not sure if we can get closer without any FY15 ps3 figures



Zippy6 said:
StarDoor said:

*snip*

So this is what brings the shipped numbers to 155.01m as of March 31st 2012, finally found some rationale for that figure has everyone quotes it without any source or explanation. 

PS2 has shipped 155.0 million units as March 2012.

Official source:

https://www.sie.com/en/corporate/data.html

EDIT:

Only seen later the reply above mine.

Last edited by Endymion - on 13 December 2021

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Endymion said:
Zippy6 said:

So this is what brings the shipped numbers to 155.01m as of March 31st 2012, finally found some rationale for that figure has everyone quotes it without any source or explanation. 

PS2 has shipped 155.0 million units as March 2012.

Official source:

https://www.sie.com/en/corporate/data.html

EDIT:

Only seen later the reply above mine.

Yeah you were just beaten to it, but thanks anyway. I spent a lot of time yesterday going over PS2/PS3 sales and never came across this page lol.



The problem with adding millions onto any specific one of Sony's hardware is that you then have to subtract that amount from one of their other hardware.  Sony made a very specific 500 million PlayStation's sold announcement a while back (actually 525.3m on 8/9/2018 to be specific) that already didn't match VGChart's estimates for the lifetime totals of PlayStations that had been on the market up to that point.  Since then, the lifetime totals for the original PlayStation was correctly paired back from 104.25m to 102.5m.  Which was something that I had gotten some push back against for suggesting as the topic of my first ever thread on this forum way back in April of 2015 - Is PS One overtracked on VGChartz (serious and honest question).

Did the original PlayStation sell over 104 million units?

Yes, 104.25 is the correct number.3946.99%
 
No, 102.49 is more likely.4453.01%
 
Total:83

Over the years, I've seen a lot of people comment that one Sony console or another should be adjusted up in sales (adjust PSP up in order to pass Gameboy Advance for example), but they rarely suggest which console(s) those sales should be taken away from.  

Here is what VGChart's had for Sony Platforms at the time of the 525 million PlayStations sold announcement (Sony reaches 525 million Playstation System sell-through milestone and commemorates it with a limited translucent PS4 Pro Edition):

PlayStation2:             157.68m
PlayStation:               104.25m
PlayStation3:               86.90m
PlayStation4:               81.06m
PlayStationPortable:  80.82m
PlayStationVita:          16.03m

VGChartz totals:     = 526.74m

8/9/2018 Announcement:  525.3m

And here's what the legacy platforms have been adjusted to since then - leaving the PS4 total where it was at the time of the announcement, and the Vita since it hadn't been discontinued until 2019 (Platform Totals - VGChartz):

PlayStation2:             157.68m
PlayStation:               102.50m
PlayStation3:               87.41m
PlayStation4:               81.06m
PlayStationPortable:     81.09m
PlayStationVita:          16.03m

VGChartz totals:     = 525.77m

8/9/2018 Announcement:  525.3m

As you can see, the adjustments that were made to VGChartz' estimates for Sony's legacy hardware brings this site very closely back in line with what Sony themselves announced as total sales by the PlayStation family as of August 9, 2018.  So, if you are suggesting that PS2 may have sold 161m consoles, that's nearly 4 million more consoles that need to be subtracted from somewhere else in the PlayStation family that hasn't been adjusted already since Sony's 2018 announcement.  Which of Sony's consoles do you think are still listed as overtracked here?



Mandalore76 said:

PlayStation2:             157.68m
PlayStation:               102.50m
PlayStation3:               87.41m
PlayStation4:               81.06m
PlayStationPortable:     81.09m
PlayStationVita:          16.03m

VGChartz totals:     = 525.77m

8/9/2018 Announcement:  525.3m

As you can see, the adjustments that were made to VGChartz' estimates for Sony's legacy hardware brings this site very closely back in line with what Sony themselves announced as total sales by the PlayStation family as of August 9, 2018.  So, if you are suggesting that PS2 may have sold 161m consoles, that's nearly 4 million more consoles that need to be subtracted from somewhere else in the PlayStation family that hasn't been adjusted already since Sony's 2018 announcement.  Which of Sony's consoles do you think are still listed as overtracked here?

The 525.3m figure is sell-through as of July 2nd 2018 at the same time they announced 81.2m sell-through for PS4. As PS1/PS3 are dead we can treat shipped as sell-through and just subtract there totals.

So subtract PS4 and we get 444.1m for PS1+PS2+PS3+PSP+Vita.

PS1 was 102.4m lifetime, subtract that: 341.7m for PS2+PS3+PSP+Vita

PS3 sold 87.4m lifetime (or very slightly over) subtract that: 254.3m for PS2+PSP+Vita

Now this is the 3 consoles we don't have close to lifetime figures left but subtract VGC figures for PSP/Vita for July 7th 2018 and...

254.3m minus 81.09m for PSP = 173.21m
173.21m minus 15.79m for Vita = 157.42m

157.42m for PS2 is too low. We know that PS2 numbers must have been over 158.51m from my calculations in the OP, the alternative method counting back from PS3 figures shown in this post: PS2 shipments over 158.6m, breaking down missing fiscal data. (vgchartz.com) prove the PS2 sales must be at a minimum over 158.29m and likely quite a bit higher unless PS3 went from 3.1m in FY14 to nothing in FY15.

So it's clear that the lifetime figures for PS2 on here are too low, and that the figures for PSP+Vita as of July 2nd 2018 are too high.

PSP at end of FY11 (March 31st 2012) = 76.4m
FY12 = 7m for PSP & Vita combined
FY13 = 4.1m for PSP & Vita Combined
FY14 =  3.3m for PSP & Vita Combined
FY15 = ??? for Vita (PSP discontinued)

if PSP sold 81.09m lifetime than Vita had shipped 9.71m by March 31st 2015, but VGC has Vita figures at 11.04m for March 28th 2015.

So I think the majority of PS2's missing sales are coming from the Vita being overtracked. VGC numbers for PSP/VITA are not in-line with Sony's portable shipment numbers.

So Vita and/or PSP are overtracked, PS2 is undertracked.

Last edited by Zippy6 - on 13 December 2021

yo33331 said:

PSP should be 81-82M in my opinion. Vita 16M or 15.9M and PS2 between 158 and 162M

This is exactly what I'm talking about.   You're hoping for somewhat of an increase to PSP (to arbitrarily pass GBA I guess?), leave Vita flat or barely adjusted down, meanwhile potentially increase PS2 by 4m?  At least Zippy6 provided coherent reasoning for where the PS2 upward adjustment would be sacrificed from.



yo33331 said:

Just like Sony went out with exact PS3 numbers shipped in 2019, till march of 2017, that had to happen with the PS2 sales numbers as well, they could go out and announce official shipments numbers as of january of even march of 2013, is it so hard for them ? I bet the numbers would have been at least 160M.

I feel like 160m is a very specific milestone that would have warranted an announcement from Sony though.  Sony announced the PS2 crossed the 150m mark on January 31st, 2011.  That was the last time they announced a specific # of consoles shipped/sold for PS2 if I'm not mistaken.  I think that if PS2 had crossed the 160m mark, Sony would have definitely issued a press release, especially since they would be able to note that no other dedicated gaming device had ever crossed that mark.