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Forums - Gaming - Assassin's Creed Valhalla: PS5 vs Xbox Series X - Updated NX Gamer - Update Digital Foundry

 

Were you expecting a big advantage for the XSX?

Yes 20 32.79%
 
No 41 67.21%
 
Total:61
DonFerrari said:
Pemalite said:
JRPGfan said:
DonFerrari said:

Now? We have been hearing It since the start of the year (and remember like couple months Ago on conference the launch games were still showing as target instead of captured on Xbox). A Lot of us have Said It would Impact quality of Xbox titles but defense force Said It wouldn't as the devs were making the game with target specs and the tweeks tô make It work on final console would be Very fast.

On the other hand, we have all been drowned in 12 Tflops > 10, and even xbox contributed to it (to say nothing of its fan base).

There was talk about PS5, being a PS4pro 1,5 and that games would only run 1440p.
There was talk about PS5 not being able to do raytraceing.
Stuff about it not being RDNA 2, and xbox fans on forums were being very loud about it, and everytime someone said lets way and see.
They would post meme and tease people about it.

All that was just FUD (fear, doubt, uncertainty, PR) from xbox and its fans (trolls).

Some are saying its not surpriseing that xbox series x, runs worse, but most weren't saying so before the launch of the two consoles.

Call of Duty, and Assasins Creed Valhalla run better on the PS5.
Devil May Cry only has a slight advantage to the XSX.

That entire 12 > 10, hype hasnt come to pass.

I dont believe its down completely to SDKs and Dev Machines access.
I think the differnce in performane between the two consoles is just not as large as many Xbox fans were expecting it to be.
Its now showing that. There is more to performance that just theoretical peak compute numbers.

You were a massive instigator of the Teraflop wars over the last console generation... Forgot how many times I had to elaborate on why it's such a useless metric... And that has only become more pronounced with this generation. - What changed your mind? The Xbox Series X vs Playstation 5 I assume? Genuinely interested.

The Series X is undoubtedly the stronger machine overall... But like I said about a year ago... Does it actually matter?
Developer competence matters, API's matter, Drivers matter, SDK's matter... All of that matters.

Drivers and SDK wasn't something we have been hearing that MS is the masters with DX12 and that abstraction wouldn't make much difference versus the higher or lower level of the API?

GG that unfounded generalisation



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JRPGfan said:
DonFerrari said:
shikamaru317 said:

We now have reports from multiple sources that the Xbox Series SDK came in very late and incomplete. Devs had very little time to get used to it and update their engines to better take advantage of Series S and X before launch, so that is a big part of why XSX performance is a bit lackluster on some of these launch titles like AC. 

Now? We have been hearing It since the start of the year (and remember like couple months Ago on conference the launch games were still showing as target instead of captured on Xbox). A Lot of us have Said It would Impact quality of Xbox titles but defense force Said It wouldn't as the devs were making the game with target specs and the tweeks tô make It work on final console would be Very fast.

On the other hand, we have all been drowned in 12 Tflops > 10, and even xbox contributed to it (to say nothing of its fan base).

There was talk about PS5, being a PS4pro 1,5 and that games would only run 1440p.
There was talk about PS5 not being able to do raytraceing.
Stuff about it not being RDNA 2, and xbox fans on forums were being very loud about it, and everytime someone said lets way and see.
They would post meme and tease people about it.

All that was just FUD (fear, doubt, uncertainty, PR) from xbox and its fans (trolls).

Some are saying its not surpriseing that xbox series x, runs worse, but most weren't saying so before the launch of the two consoles.

Call of Duty, and Assasins Creed Valhalla run better on the PS5.
Devil May Cry only has a slight advantage to the XSX.

That entire 12 > 10, hype hasnt come to pass.

I dont believe its down completely to SDKs and Dev Machines access.
I think the differnce in performane between the two consoles is just not as large as many Xbox fans were expecting it to be.
Its now showing that. There is more to performance that just theoretical peak compute numbers.

Do we really need to worry ourselves with what the bottom tier console warz trolls say about either console? It's not as if we didn't see a ton of FUD about the XSX and how the PS5 was supposed to be so much better. Especially when you mention stuff like TF, and RDNA. You yourself have quoted people from GAF who peddled FUD about XSX and talked about how PS5 would be RDNA3 and XSX would be more like 1.5 and also before the PS5 reveal would speculate about how the PS5 would have 15TF of power and 32GB of RAM.

Furthermore you're listing three cross gen launch games with small differences here or there and extrapolating it out for the whole generation and power of each machine, and yet you're also talking about FUD? Doesn't make much sense.



DonFerrari said:
Pemalite said:

You were a massive instigator of the Teraflop wars over the last console generation... Forgot how many times I had to elaborate on why it's such a useless metric... And that has only become more pronounced with this generation. - What changed your mind? The Xbox Series X vs Playstation 5 I assume? Genuinely interested.

The Series X is undoubtedly the stronger machine overall... But like I said about a year ago... Does it actually matter?
Developer competence matters, API's matter, Drivers matter, SDK's matter... All of that matters.

Drivers and SDK wasn't something we have been hearing that MS is the masters with DX12 and that abstraction wouldn't make much difference versus the higher or lower level of the API?

If Microsoft's Drivers and SDK are subpar from a feature/performance level then Microsoft has dropped the ball, it will get ironed out in due time, but it's not like Microsoft hasn't had years to get on top of this... So no excuses in my opinion.

Sony for all intents and purposes are leveraging some really really good software frameworks for developers to leverage, heard absolutely nothing but praise, which is a very good sign.. And that likely is playing a big role in the launch titles being solid performers.

Direct-X 12 however isn't the high-performance graphics API on Xbox... Just like Vulkan isn't the high-performance API for Playstation, both consoles have lower-level API's, but they are much more difficult to work with, but offer far more performance. - We won't see those leveraged fully for another few years when developers start dropping support for the last generation devices.

LudicrousSpeed said:

Do we really need to worry ourselves with what the bottom tier console warz trolls say about either console? It's not as if we didn't see a ton of FUD about the XSX and how the PS5 was supposed to be so much better. Especially when you mention stuff like TF, and RDNA. You yourself have quoted people from GAF who peddled FUD about XSX and talked about how PS5 would be RDNA3 and XSX would be more like 1.5 and also before the PS5 reveal would speculate about how the PS5 would have 15TF of power and 32GB of RAM.

Furthermore you're listing three cross gen launch games with small differences here or there and extrapolating it out for the whole generation and power of each machine, and yet you're also talking about FUD? Doesn't make much sense.

It's also why I typically shot down rumors as bullshit until we get it from the horses mouth or actually have evidence.

People simply had unrealistic expectations... I remember "rumors" that the next-gen consoles would have 128GB of Ram, was silly then, it's silly now.
Consoles are cost-sensitive devices, if it's not happening on PC cost effectively, it's not happening on consoles that leverage PC technology.

Chazore said:

I mean he's here right now, trying to defend one box from another, while at the same time trying to make it like it's much about nothing, but still trying to put PS in the better light.

It was stupid back then, and it's stupid af now to see this level, this silly amount of depth for one game on two systems. It's the fanboy wars all over again. 

Literally spent "years" debating points on technology he has presented on this very forum, especially in regards to Teraflops.

It doesn't bother me if someone prefers a certain platform, I respect that actually, we all have our preferences... We are all different... And there absolutely is nothing wrong with that. - But to peddle false information and even outright lie about it, does not sit well with me.
It just means that individual lost all integrity and respect.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

LudicrousSpeed said:
JRPGfan said:
DonFerrari said:
shikamaru317 said:

We now have reports from multiple sources that the Xbox Series SDK came in very late and incomplete. Devs had very little time to get used to it and update their engines to better take advantage of Series S and X before launch, so that is a big part of why XSX performance is a bit lackluster on some of these launch titles like AC. 

Now? We have been hearing It since the start of the year (and remember like couple months Ago on conference the launch games were still showing as target instead of captured on Xbox). A Lot of us have Said It would Impact quality of Xbox titles but defense force Said It wouldn't as the devs were making the game with target specs and the tweeks tô make It work on final console would be Very fast.

On the other hand, we have all been drowned in 12 Tflops > 10, and even xbox contributed to it (to say nothing of its fan base).

There was talk about PS5, being a PS4pro 1,5 and that games would only run 1440p.
There was talk about PS5 not being able to do raytraceing.
Stuff about it not being RDNA 2, and xbox fans on forums were being very loud about it, and everytime someone said lets way and see.
They would post meme and tease people about it.

All that was just FUD (fear, doubt, uncertainty, PR) from xbox and its fans (trolls).

Some are saying its not surpriseing that xbox series x, runs worse, but most weren't saying so before the launch of the two consoles.

Call of Duty, and Assasins Creed Valhalla run better on the PS5.
Devil May Cry only has a slight advantage to the XSX.

That entire 12 > 10, hype hasnt come to pass.

I dont believe its down completely to SDKs and Dev Machines access.
I think the differnce in performane between the two consoles is just not as large as many Xbox fans were expecting it to be.
Its now showing that. There is more to performance that just theoretical peak compute numbers.

Do we really need to worry ourselves with what the bottom tier console warz trolls say about either console? It's not as if we didn't see a ton of FUD about the XSX and how the PS5 was supposed to be so much better. Especially when you mention stuff like TF, and RDNA. You yourself have quoted people from GAF who peddled FUD about XSX and talked about how PS5 would be RDNA3 and XSX would be more like 1.5 and also before the PS5 reveal would speculate about how the PS5 would have 15TF of power and 32GB of RAM.

Furthermore you're listing three cross gen launch games with small differences here or there and extrapolating it out for the whole generation and power of each machine, and yet you're also talking about FUD? Doesn't make much sense.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/243669/microsoft-xbox-series-s-and-x-only-next-gen-consoles-with-full-rdna-2-feature-set/

Also I dont remember ever haveing said the PS5 would be RNDA3 or quoteing others saying so.
I have believed that it might be more customised than the XSX, and thus run slightly better than the whole 10 vs 12 thing, and have argued that though.

LudicrousSpeed said:
Digital Foundry redeemed.

SonyGAF was so sure that AMD and Cerny were going to unveil RDNA3 on stage today inside the PS5.

Will be interesting to see what difference this makes over the course of the generation. No doubt Sony has custom alternatives to RDNA2 features but they won’t be as good.

You where convinced, that not only would there be a 18% gap in power, but it would be bigger due to "sony haveing lesser alternatives" to features.
You call Neogaf "SonyGAF", and dont consider yourself part of the console wars? 


I mean look at some of this:

shikamaru317 said:
This matches with the rumors that PS5 was originally designed as a 2019 console, but had to be delayed into 2020, full RDNA 2 wouldn't have been ready if PS5 was designed as a 2019 console originally. Also explains why PS5 has a 350 watt power supply compared to 320 watt for Xbox Series X, even though Xbox Series X is more powerful and has locked clocks compared to variable clocks on PS5; if PS5 is only RDNA 1.5 (RDNA 1 with some RDNA 2 features), we know that RDNA 2 is more power efficient, which would explain why Xbox Series can get away with a smaller power supply in spite of the console being more powerful.

^ thats basically FUD.   There where quite a few post of a simular type in there.


Heres me in that thread:

JRPGfan said:
Hiku said:

An info-graph to help people visualize.
The chips were developed at the same time.    *pic removed*

Yes, people ignore that customsation of chips isn't something new or unheard of in consoles.
You could take out a part of RDNA2 and change it to something you rather used instead (which there would be a reason for, otherwise why bother doing it?). It could be better off, for being customised differntly than full RDNA2, we dont know.

From that same thread:

shikamaru317 said:
I'm also reading that Ubisoft confirmed that AC Valhalla is native 4k 60 fps on XSX, sub 4K upscaled to 4K 60 fps on PS5. Wonder what the resolution will be on PS5? 1800p, 1900p, 2000p? Will be an interesting DF video for both Watch Dogs and AC Valhalla I think, definitely watching those.
shikamaru317 said:

Honestly, I can't say I'm surprised by the resolution discrepancy on AC Valhalla. Were people really expecting most multiplats to have parity on XSX and PS5? XSX is 12.1 tflops, PS5 is 10.3 tflops best case scenario, with the potential for it to fall below that if a game is both CPU and GPU intensive (PS5 can't run both the CPU and the GPU at max clocks at the same time as far as we know), and then you have to take into account that some game engines tend to respond better to more CU's than to higher GPU clocks, which would give XSX an even bigger advantage on those games. Resolution is the easiest GPU feature to scale down on a game, so it makes sense that most multiplats will have higher resolution on XSX.

The question will be how large the resolution gap is on the multiplats, 1800p vs 2160p (4K), 1900p, 2000p, a dynamic scaler for resolution to better take advantage of PS5's variable GPU frequency? In the end, the resolution difference will probably be small enough that you will only be able to tell a difference in a side by side video, or on a really large screen (like 70 inch or more probably). 

We now know :) They both run dymanic 4k, and the PS5 seems to hold a higher avg resolution & framerate (and less screen tearing).

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 16 November 2020

They broke quote trees again so I'm not going to bother quoting, but thanks for linking that thread, that's exactly what I was talking about. You're complaining about FUD and posts from "Xbox users on forums" yet you're fine with quoting people like geordieimp or whatever from SonyGAF, a complete Sony shill who has done nothing but flame console warz there with absolute nonsense. Most of the PS5 = RDNA3 rumors and X|S = RDNA 1.5 stuff came from him and his ilk there. Also, how is SonyGAF console wars? SonyGAF = the Sony fanbase on GAF. There is also NFLGAF, NBAGAF, XboxGAF, etc etc. I don't think you understand what you are saying.

There is an "18%" gap in power between the consoles, at worst. My post that you quoted literally says it will be interesting to see how the difference plays out over the generation. It doesn't say Series X games will blow PS5 away or something so again, you seem confused as to what you're trying to convey here. And yeah, I know you've argued PS5 might be more customized and SSD and blah blah but as others are telling you, that's after years of you arguing about TF. You only went in on customization and etc because PS5 has less TF.

Not to even mention that at the end of the day you're talking about FUD and then trying to basically call the entire generation in terms of capabilities, based on a few cross gen launch titles LOL.



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LudicrousSpeed said:

They broke quote trees again so I'm not going to bother quoting, but thanks for linking that thread, that's exactly what I was talking about. You're complaining about FUD and posts from "Xbox users on forums" yet you're fine with quoting people like geordieimp or whatever from SonyGAF, a complete Sony shill who has done nothing but flame console warz there with absolute nonsense. Most of the PS5 = RDNA3 rumors and X|S = RDNA 1.5 stuff came from him and his ilk there. Also, how is SonyGAF console wars? SonyGAF = the Sony fanbase on GAF. There is also NFLGAF, NBAGAF, XboxGAF, etc etc. I don't think you understand what you are saying.

There is an "18%" gap in power between the consoles, at worst. My post that you quoted literally says it will be interesting to see how the difference plays out over the generation. It doesn't say Series X games will blow PS5 away or something so again, you seem confused as to what you're trying to convey here. And yeah, I know you've argued PS5 might be more customized and SSD and blah blah but as others are telling you, that's after years of you arguing about TF. You only went in on customization and etc because PS5 has less TF.

Not to even mention that at the end of the day you're talking about FUD and then trying to basically call the entire generation in terms of capabilities, based on a few cross gen launch titles LOL.

Interesting actually is that as always you are ever so concerned on combating anything that can be seem as anti-Xbox, but will help on doing the anti-PS stuff. But certainly you are far removed from console war.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

If I responded to everything “anti-Xbox” then I’d have way more posts here. Hope that helps. Stick to spamming that report button please LOLDo you view this thread as “anti-Xbox”? I don’t.



LudicrousSpeed said:
If I responded to everything anti-Xbox then I’d have way more posts here. Hope that helps. Stick to spamming that report button please LOL Do you view this thread as anti-Xbox? I don’t.

@Bolded: That’s an interesting comment...



We had developers praising the PS5 efficiency for months, but people only saw the 12 vs 10 TF and ignored the rest.



@shikamaru dunno how thrustworthing and if that denies the rumors from start of the year. But Dirty 5 dev basically puts that SDK was good and not a hint of delayed.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."